First we have to get the language right

The revelation in the UK Guardian that Pakistan intelligence services may have tortured one of the suspects implicated in Britain's air terror plot raises some interesting questions:

Balanced against all that of course is the “ticking bomb” scenario - the theoretical reductio in which we have a terrorist whom we know has planted a bomb that will, if undetected, kill hundreds or thousands (or millions) of people. I suspect most people, even the most decent ones, would willingly avert their eyes - all other options being exhausted - to whatever lesser evil is employed against a guilty party to forestall an even greater crime committed against a multitude of innocents...

Framed this way, the question can become one not of “if” we should apply duress, but when and how. How do we “know” our suspect has the knowledge we seek? If we are relatively certain, does that alter the level of discomfort we can inflict? What constitutes permissible discomfort, and what impermissible inhumanity? Upon what scale do we balance the needs of physical security for the many against the rights of the individual?

It would help if we could collectively decide what exactly "torture" consists of, but to even raise the issue is to risk excoriation - it is the untouchable, unviewable, unspeakable elephant in the room that persists in being there, even when we would all like it to go away.

More questions, some thoughts, but very few answers over at my place.

DADT Survey

A fellow milblogger (Citizen Deux) is asking for some help from current and retired military personnel. If you could, please go here and answer his survey questions on DADT. Thanks.

In Honor of Sgt. Michael Stokley

Today is the anniversary of the death of Sgt. Michael Stokley. His father, Robert, writes a moving tribute over at the Tanker Bros. site

On August 16, 2005, at 0700 hours eastern daylight savings time, a call that changed the life of every member of the Stokely family came to our home in Sharpsburg GA - "Mr. Stokely, this is Major Hulsey; I am here with Chaplain Dicoppo and we need to speak with you urgently but your dog will not let us to the door." I knew the moment I hung the phone up and ran at a fast gait to the door and down the steps, meeting them in the driveway that they were at my home to tell me my "boy" was dead.

I close by saying this - while others debated, Mike Stokely served. While others continue to debate, we, as a family, stand committed to the service Mike Stokely gave his country and the principles of peace and freedom he found just causes worth dying for. Mike Stokely would do it all over again even knowing the eventual outcome of his own death.

I cannot begin to imagine the pain, but I understand completely the love... and pride. Be sure to read the full tribute and leave the Stokley family a comment on this most difficult day.

(And while you're there, read about the Rolling Victory Fast... and sign up for a day or two... it will do your body -- and your spirit -- good.)

Another Patrol clip

OK, one more little clip of a patrol and I'll lay off...for a while. This one is a little bit of time spent bouncing around the inside an uparmored HMMWV in March 2005.

Marketing defeat

Jim Wooten has some interesting points about where the Left is trying to spin the national debate. Sad to read, but for many on the Anti-American Left (yes I called them that), I think he hits the target.

(the people who are driving the anti-American Left's) drift to pacifism and appeasement define Vietnam’s deaths as the product of misdirected adventurism. Abandon Iraq now and the lives of young dead soldiers are debris on the desert floor, for the worth of their sacrifice will be defined, as Vietnam was, as misguided adventurism or worse, the product of lies.