Yeah, I was thinking the same, . . . sucks to be Josh right now.

He's trying to tell his buddies, "No man, I wasn't actually crying, I was just, well, you know, . . . I'm just sayin' . . . "

I'm not seeing the point of this...there's plenty of soldiers who've made similar comments for legitimate reasons? Are they supposed to keep their mouths shut in case some guy in a cave might reference their words? Obviously, if I was Joshua I would be annoyed that of all people in the world, Osama Bin Laden decides to reference me, but if the flipside you never open your mouth and utter a true opinion, than Bin Laden pretty much already won anyway.
Maybe I'm misintepreting the post, but "sucks to be you," written about a combat veteran seems a little flippant and juvenile, but I'm reading into it wrong, then that's my bad.

We're all about free speech here.

And the consequences thereof.

What you're seeing is somebody publicly complaining about the difficulty of their mission and suggesting that they can't hack it. That might have been a statement made at an emotional moment, or a carefully thought out position - I don't know which. But obviously it sent an encouraging message loud and clear to the very top of the organization of guys who are trying to kill him and his brothers in arms.

I'm guessing you're a civilian and not in Iraq - if you were a soldier over here you'd know exactly what the phrase meant. When you're at war and your enemy shares, endorses, and encourages your opinion and broadcasts that message around the world - and when most of the guys there with you don't share your weakness - then it sucks to be you.

Funny that you say that...I got back from Iraq three weeks ago after a monthlong embed with the 82nd - my second trip. Everybody there complained every minute of the day - and they hacked it, every minute of the day.

There are a million pantywaists in this country for you to target anger and blame at, when it comes to Bin Laden's bleatings...No soldier needs more piling on, in what is clearly an embarrasing moment for him.

I agree we all face the consequences of our free speech. If you start picking your battles with junior enlisted soldiers in a combat zone, then I simply question how productively you're using yours.

Nathan:

Bin ladeen did the piling on.

I'm not calling on people to lynch the guy, just pointing out it sucks to be him. You're reading far far too much into the post.

Another point on GI speak: soldiers don't complain. (This is an insider's reference too. Ask someone else to explain this one to you.)

Nobody's saying they shouldn't speak their minds, or even dissent from the policies they're charged with carrying out, but modern war's most critical battlespace is the media, and that of public perception.

What soldiers say and think is important. Their words, if parroted by the media or enemy, can translate into tangible losses, and can really do damage. That's not to say they should be silenced, but simply that they should be wary when reporters are around, and judicious with their words.

Also, the daily complaining in the ranks could strike a reporter or the enemy the wrong way, if they haven't been exposed to that culture. They're not going to casually interpret it as "a griping grunt is a happy grunt." They'll put those words front and center as proof positive that everything is hopeless.

Simply saying all soldiers, officers and enlisted, should weigh their words if they're talking to the media isn't a horrible thing, but in this day and age it's just another part of the fight.

What Jordan said ...

... in this day and age, a soldier has to be as aware of where his mouth is pointing, as he is of where his weapon is pointing.

I'm actually an Army war veteran as well. Soldiers 'complain' all day about everything under and including the sun. If you want to use a different word for it, fine, but let's not go all "culture war" here.

Like I said originally, if I misread the post, fine, that's my mistake. But as far as I can tell, Bin Laden clearly and deliberately chose an example he probably knew would get the desired result from both sides:

The left will rally around it as an example of poor, helpless, bedraggled troops barely able to fight this unfair war. Which is a dirty lie. The kid goes out there, fighting for all of us, and he's 10 times the man any anti-war limo liberal is.

The right will attack the soldier, and say how he's not representative of the rest, and it's terrible and he's letting his buddies down. Which is equally untrue. He really is pretty representative, and he just had the brass balls to say what all his friends were probably thinking.

If people sitting on their fat asses back in the U.S. can't intepret and understand a soldier's war zone words for the emotional venting that they are, that's not the soldier's fault - that's our fault for being stupid and lazy and not bothering to understand men at war. Read "Here Is Your War" by Ernie Pyle sometime, and you'll get all the complaining you can handle.

Bin Laden is a sissy bitch sitting in a cave, and yet his words make us dance like puppets all the same, and divide us even against the soldiers we've sent to fight the war against him.

Bingo, which is also why it sucks to be him - you don't want to be 'that guy'. The phrase would apply equally to someone who stumbles into a binjo ditch on a dark night in Korea, or who by luck of the draw gets to be monitor for a piss test three times in a row. It essentially conveys the same message as "Gosh I wouldn't want to be in your shoes" but also conveys a bit of empathy for the situation - at least as much as you're likely to see acknowledged by your fellow troops, who are (of course) tough guys all.

By the way, Nate's reports from Iraq are quite good.

If I've understood this discussion correctly Nate, the argument that you've built up into a crusade is about one individual who is being used for propaganda by the other side, somewhat in the same manner as Hanoi Jane was used in 'Nam. The fact that the young man made his job harder in addition to giving the members of congress who are against the war ammo to use against him is nothing short of obstreporous.

That you're arguing his case shows that you weren't in the war that showed how bad it could be. That you come into this thread and start slinging around slights such 'people sitting on their fat asses' at people who have a myriad of years beyond you in terms of experience, both of combat and of peacetime, causes one to wonder what your 'Army war' experience is. One normally couches his terms as 'Nam vet or Iraqi vet or Kuwaiti vet. How are you identified?

Greyhawk-
You are right "It sucks to be him." I mean how freakin embarrassing would it be in World War II if Tokyo Rose quoted you "bitchin" about being in the war. Hell, at the very least back in World War II over 10 million men were drafted you'd expect some soldiers might "bitch". Which makes today's volunteer soldier "bitch" moments even all the more important to Al Queda and the other Jihadists. I don't know if that frustration comes from the fact that over 90% of the population can't comprehend what our servicemen and women have to put up with. Or that the leadership of one political party would rather hamstring our military with laywers instead doing what it takes to win this war.

It essentially conveys the same message as "Gosh I wouldn't want to be in your shoes" but also conveys a bit of empathy for the situation - at least as much as you're likely to see acknowledged by your fellow troops, who are (of course) tough guys all.

If that's the way I should have intepreted it from the very beginning, then like I said from the start, that's my mistake and I've overreacted. To me, it just seemed like an unneccessary attack on some poor troop, but if that's not how it was intended, then I took it much more seriously than you meant. But he's not here to defend himself, so I figured I'd do it for him.

Any soldier in a combat zone can clearly complain about another soldier who screws up like this...but by posting about him and his words, it holds him up to CIVILIAN ridicule, and to those who would use his bad luck against him, for their own political purposes. That was obviously Bin Laden's intention.

Bottom line is I feel bad for the kid and I think he should just be left out of it (especially since he was misquoted no less).

The article you linked to is my least favorite, because it's all about me, and not the soldiers I was actually there to interview...I'm annoyed there's even an online link to it.

Hey, Mike H., I don't need to justify myself or my service to you or anybody. Read the posts. I didn't come in here throwing my weight around. All I did was clarify my bonafides when they were questioned, in defense of a fellow veteran.

Bin Laden's mesage isn't aimed at Americans - it's a recruiting drive for al Qaeda aimed at Muslims. See the 1996 and 1998 versions. Americans shouldn't be duped into thinking he's talkng to them at all.

Nate,

Please put some links in comments to some of your preferred articles. I really did like that first one, though I understand what you're saying though abv.

One thing about written comunication - unless the sender and receiver know each other well it's easy to make fundamental misjudgments regarding intent - we rely more on inflection, tone, and body language in communications than we consciously recognize.

The poor troop is fighting toe to toe with the most demonic terrorists on the planet. He can probably withstand a little ribbing from his own uniformed brethren. He's not a helpless victim, he's just an American fighting man who happened to talk within earshot of a reporter.

Of course WE can keep it in proper perspective, and take it for what it is. THEY will use the words to do further damage to the public perceptions about the war, arguably the most important theater in this war. And they certainly have. It's not so much an attack on this soldier, but a cautionary tale for all of them.

Yeah, I went a little overboard...ah, what are you gonna do...that's the Internet for you.

The biggest part of the reason I was so strident is having just got back from a month at a JSS in Bayji (this was no FOB. It got mortared consistently, and random gunfire was a constant. It was not the worst place by far, but it wasn't the best, though getting better), I can say that what Lake and Vassell said were very representative of the many junior enlisted soldiers I talked to...it wasn't 50-50...more like 90-10. And bear in mind, this was the 82nd!

Having said that, there is no single complaint ever uttered on a patrol or any mission - not one. No matter how hot it gets, or pointless they think it is. That's what counts, not the words somebody decides to misuse.

So when I see a soldier get "attacked" (which wasn't actually the case here), it reminds me of those guys and it reminds me how unfair it would be if the same thing happened to one of them.

When I got back, people would say "oh they must have tried to spin you!" And I'm like "Spin me? I tried to spin them!" Because, since I got sit in on meetings with shiekhs, etc., I could see the local Sunni leadership is buying into the reconcilation concept. But, when you're an E-4 pulling security on a rooftop in 130 degrees, you do NOT see that, and you don't care. More than once, someone would be venting to me, and I would have to tell THEM, "yeah, but the Sunnis are coming around," and then they'd say "yeah, you're probably right. I guess it's working."

It's their story and they get to describe it the way they want....I really believe it's up to America to appreciate those words for the truth they are, not blame a soldier or use the words to excuse our own lack of resolve. Which I don't think anyone here is really doing.

Like everyone agrees, anyone "in the family" can give this guy a hard time - I mean, he got mentioned by Bin Laden for crying out loud. That doesn't happen to everybody.

But, if I'd read it right the first time, my first comment would have been much more tongue-in-cheek...And of course, once you called me out for being a "civilian not in the war zone," I naturally got defensive...civilian now, yes, but...haha...

I'm too lazy to post links, but they're around.