Bush Gets Ready To Drop The Mask

Check it out. They want to amend the Army field manual to allow degradation and humiliation of prisoners. One answer to Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo is to clean it up. Another answer is to make it legal.

If this goes through, it's a very bad day for this country. Until now, the U.S. has offered wealth, but also ideas and ideals. Now we'll offer nothing but power. Just like the Romans.

Not giving into the terrorists? Au contraire. Looks like the terrorists have won the most important victory they could have possibly sought. They caused the United States to abandon its founding principles and sink to their level.

The dream's over.

http://w3t.org/u/qtf

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon has decided to omit from new detainee policies a key tenet of the Geneva Convention that bans "humiliating and degrading treatment," according to military officials. That step would mark a potentially permanent shift away from strict adherence to international human-rights standards. ...

http://w3t.org/u/qtg

Incidentally, I'm not as gloomy as my first message indicated. I don't think the Liar-in-Chief will get away with this. Congress will simply step in and re-write the Army field manual itself. Just wait.

Greyhawk, I gotta ask- is this person above really contributing to debate?

I don't mind an intelligent difference, even heated- with respect of course. Maybe someone else will convince me that this person brings something, but I don't see it at the moment.

brings something = mindless Bushbot

WW, as much as I hate to say it, there have been times that you've made some great points. That having been said, however...your constant name calling and just plain obnoxious style pretty much cancels out most people's interest in what you say. It's hard to get people to listen to you when you're hitting them over the head with a bat.

This is what the so-called "mistake" by the supposed friend of the US at the UK Times has wrought: "A Smear You Can't Take Back."

Unless this UK Times guy wrote a Front Page, Above the Fold article correcting his, in his words, "dreadful error", then no little editorial buried somewhere in the website or newspaper can correct the damage.

The media consistently plays this game. Print an incorrect story on Page 1, then correct the errors on Page D24.

The UK Times deserves all the ire is has received. If a "news" organization cannot do the simple task of posting the proper pictures and captions with a news story, they do not deserve to be in business. Period.

The UK Times' incompetence has effectively smeared the reputation of American troops once again.

WW, as much as I hate to say it, there have been times that you've made some great points. That having been said, however...your constant name calling and just plain obnoxious style pretty much cancels out most people's interest in what you say. It's hard to get people to listen to you when you're hitting them over the head with a bat.

Sometimes that's what is required. The so-called "milblogosphere" is a mirror image of the far-left wing. Not a hint of visible light. Sometimes the police and the marines have to crack skulls, and sometimes I have to do it too.

"Sometimes that's what is required. ... Sometimes the police and the marines have to crack skulls, and sometimes I have to do it too."

In other words, your purpose to posting here is not to be respectful and try to open us up to your point of view, it is simply to insult us and anger us and crack our skulls. Which only angers us more and shuts us off completely to what you say. What purpose does that serve WW? Do you wish to open people's eyes to another point of view or simply piss people off with your rhetoric, thereby ensuring people will not give your point of view any credence.

The former are the efforts of patriotic dissent/debate. The latter are the tactics of a troll (not trying to debate, just trying to stir up trouble and piss people off... "crack skulls").

In other words, your purpose to posting here is not to be respectful and try to open us up to your point of view, it is simply to insult us and anger us and crack our skulls. Which only angers us more and shuts us off completely to what you say. What purpose does that serve WW? Do you wish to open people's eyes to another point of view or simply piss people off with your rhetoric, thereby ensuring people will not give your point of view any credence.

My purpose is to say what the hell I want to say. You whackjobs need to be told the truth. You're too stupid and/or stubbon to ever admit it here, but at some point the residual three points of your I.Q. that aren't occupied by breathing, defecating and popping open another beer may well notice.

If not, then at least I had fun telling you exactly what I think of you. And I know it's had impact, or you wouldn't bother to answer me.

Oh, and more one thing. In the latest polls, anywhere from 61% to 67% of the public things going to Iraq was the wrong thing to do. One-third of the public thinks your Liar-in Chief is the worst president of the last 75 years, followed by one-sixth who think that other Republican star, Richard Nixon, was the worst.

So open your eyes and see what the public thinks of you. I might be one of the very few of the majority who bothers to post here, but don't imagine for a nanosecond that you are not in a small and shrinking minority. Your Liar-in-Chief is a failure, and his war is lost. Get used to it.

"My purpose is..."

Thank you for confirming that you are simply a troll. I will not waste any more of my time on you. Have a great life, WW and do try to have more of a positive attitude about things in life. I cannot imagine going through each day feeling so negative about everything and thinking the worst of everyone around me. Take care.

I cannot imagine going through each day feeling so negative about everything and thinking the worst of everyone around me.

Michael, it is you, not me, who is justifying torture and murder on a daily basis. And you're the optimist? Does that mean the Republican Party gets off on blood 'n guts? Wait -- don't answer that.

Speaking of the so-called "Milbogosphere" as knee-jerk megaphone for the Bushbot far-right wing, have any of you retired nutscratchers been following the scandal over at the VA about the personal information of milliions of veterans?

You know, the one where some idiot takes home the records of more than 25 million veterans, including their Social Security numbers and home addresses, and then the computer is "stolen?" And where the head of the VA covers it up for a few weeks because he's too much of a coward to tell anyone?

The head of the VA happenes to be the former head of the Republican National Committee, which of course as we all know is perfect qualifications to run the VA. Not only that, but it means that the so-called "Milblogs," which in reality are a leisure time propaganda service of the Bushbot fringe, will utter barely a word.

Well, as it should turn out, those records included the data on 1.1 million active duty troops, plus 430,000 National Guard troops, plus 645,000 reservists. Not that the Greyhawk or the rest of the so-called "Milblogosphere" cares. It's too embarrassing for the political allies. The troops? Hey, what's a little identity theft among friends?

http://w3t.org/u/r13

Social Security numbers and other personal information for as many as 2.2 million U.S. military personnel -- including nearly 80 percent of the active-duty force -- were among the data stolen from the home of a Department of Veterans Affairs analyst last month, federal officials said yesterday, raising concerns about national security as well as identity theft.

The department announced that personal data for as many as 1.1 million active-duty military personnel, 430,000 National Guard members and 645,000 reserve members may have been included on an electronic file stolen May 3 from a department employee's house in Aspen Hill. The data include names, birth dates and Social Security numbers, VA spokesman Matt Burns said.

My purpose is to say what the hell I want to say.

You whackjobs need to be told the truth.

Two very, very different things.

For instance, we were not attaked by Saudi Arabia on 911. This fallacy is an extension of the "war for oil" meme, where it is alleged that the President won't touch the Saudis because they are his "oil buddies" ... when in fact the Saudi government, like Pakistan, is not a monolith, and has elements IN CONTROL that support our position.

And there are light-yeasrs of difference between a semi-irrational Kim Jong Il ... with his next-door neighbor, China ... pursuing nukes (and allegedly making progress, in part, thanks to the previous Administration's efforts at good-faith diplomacy) ...

... and leaving a proven opportunistic gambler like Saddam free to pursue them -- along with all the other WMD "projects" we now KNOW he had planned, his terror-support "projects" that were ongoing, and his continuing project to foment corruption at the UN.

UN inspectors proving a negative? Right ... when did they uncover the mothballed WMD programs documented by Duelfer? And you expect to trust inspectors controlled by a corrupt organization? As I've always said, nothing short of a national proctoscopy would be conclusive regarding Saddam ... and the President did just that, acting to give Iraq its best WMD inspection ever, while removing the biggest problem in Iraq re: WMD -- the men in charge.

WE were the only credible deterrent to Saddam in the region ... and we weren't going to be allowed to remain forever, thanks to "diplomacy". That is one of the biggest differences between Iraq and NK -- NK's primary deterrent wasn't going anywhere.

The solution is not to "contain" threats -- it is to ELIMINATE them wherever possible.

That is the difference between 10 Sept 2001 and 11 Sept 2001, in terms of thinking. Your hatred for this President, Willy, blinds you to this.

BTW, his poll numbers are starting to go back up, as people are beginning to see through lies like yours and are perceiving the truth. Not only that, but I note that his party is doing pretty good in California's special elections right now ... even in the face of the "culture of corruption" smears that have a close relation to this election.

Hope you got your G-suit on, nice and tight, Mr. Poll Pilot.

Rich, were you a gymnast in a prior life, or just a circus contortionist. Quite the maneuvering you did there.

North Korea is responsible for Pakistan's ability to make nukes, and Pakistan proliferated to Libya. There is already an Islamic bomb. Saddam was definitely a nasty guy, but no nastier than a whole range of nasty dictators that the U.S. has cozied up to over the years. In fact, Saddam was one of them in the 1980s; your own Idiot of Defense, Rummy, was all smiles only months after Saddam used those terrible chemicals in the one town. Surely you've seen the photo.

Unlike, say Pakistan's government, Saddam ran a secular regime. The Baathists were no day at the beach, but they were not Islamic fundamentalists. Quite the contrary; both the Shia and the al-Qaeda Sunnis hated him. That's one of the main reasons why the linkage between Saddam and al-Qaeda made by the Liar-in-Chief was absurd on its face. It would be like calling Bush an agent of the pro-abortion lobby.

As for whether Saudi Arabia attacked us, you do made a legitimate point about how to see the rest of the world. A common logical fallacy is to regard a country as equivalent to a person, i.e., as a unitary whole, rather than as a coalition of interests. I'd wager that even the most locked-down country on earth, North Korea, has its factions.

As did Iraq. But not that you'd ever have known it to listen to your Liar-in-Chief, who constantly equated Iraq with its dictator, Saddam. Well, now that Saddam is gone we've certainly seen that fallacy. Wouldn't you have thought that someone should have seen it coming and planned for it? But no: We were going to be greeted with sweets 'n flowers after the initial cakewalk.

But, alas, your Liar-in-Chief is from your own political party so you will question absolutely nothing. Nope, there haven't been any failures. And you couldn't possibly care less about 2,500 U.S. dead, nearly 10,000 critically wounded, and tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of killed and maimed Iraqis. Too inconvenient.

Thank God Bush didn't lie about blowjobs. Then we'd have to impeach him.

So, Greyhawk, it looks like the regular news media are paying attention to your Idiot-in-Chief's VA having allowed the identities of more than 25 million veterans plus another 2.2 million active duty personnel, guardmen and reservists to be stolen. Names, addresses, phone numbers, medical info., Security Security numbers.

What's the matter? Did you and the rest of what passes for the so-called Milblogosphere get a phone call from the White House ordering you not to dare discuss this on your blogs? Or do you individually and collectively just not give a rat's ass about it?

I'm really curious?

I mean, if you really look hard, even Faux News stuck it on their website. Kind of buried it, but it's there. So maybe it's safe to go in the water now, 'hawk. I thought you'd want to know what the Politburo is doing.

http://w3t.org/u/r1c