More Armor

Jack Kelly:

Colonel Thomas Spoehr is annoyed with New York Times reporter Michael Moss, for what I think is a good reason.

Spoehr is the director of materiel for the Army staff. He had a good news story to tell Moss, which Moss converted into a bad news story.

The story is that of the improved body armor (read it all here) - and it's also one that MilBlogger Mustang 09 responded to quite effectively here Read that one if you want a street-level view.

Last week Col Spoehr also "appeared" on NPR's Talk of the Nation. You can listen here, or read the transcript below. At first read of Cohen's questions it seems he chose to follow the Time's lead, but listening online you hear he's actually not hostile (there's a lesson to be learned in that), and the result is a that the Colonel got the opportunity to set the record straight. Kudos once again to NPR.

The transcript:

NEAL CONAN, host: For the second time since the beginning of the Iraq War, the Pentagon has been struggling to get the latest body armor to US troops in Iraq as insurgent attacks have become more lethal. Early last year the Pentagon began to replace existing body armor with stronger, thicker plates to deal with new enemy weaponry and ammunition. More than a year later, The New York Times reports that a large percentage of US soldiers are still without the new plates because of delays with Pentagon procurement.

Colonel Thomas Spoehr is director of materiel on the Army staff and he joins us now from the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. Very good of you to be with us today.

Colonel THOMAS SPOEHR (Director of Materiel on the Army Staff): Good to be here, Neal.

CONAN: Because of security concerns, I know you can't talk about specifics in terms of what the armor could stop, how thick it is, and that sort of thing. But what are some of the obstacles to getting the latest armor from the factory out to the soldier in the field?

Col. SPOEHR: Well, Neal, I take exception to the characterization that we're struggling because what we're doing is making a deliberate improvement to body armor, and our body armor is already the best body armor in the world. It's saving lives every day over there in the country. And what the Army leadership has done is seen an opportunity to make an improvement in the body armor that's already over there. And so that's what we're doing.

CONAN: Yet it's been a long time since the determination that improved body armor could be made, and a lot of soldiers in Iraq still don't have it.

Col. SPOEHR: Well, again, I think that's a mischaracterization. We really saw the opportunity to improve this body armor starting around the turn of the year in January. And then by March already, we were producing plates. In August now, we're making 20,000 sets per month of these new plates.

CONAN: Now two plates, as I understand it, are required to make one set of body armor or...

Col. SPOEHR: That's correct.

CONAN: OK.

Col. SPOEHR: Two plates. And these plates are really a marvel of American technology. They're--I equate them to almost the same level of technology that you'd find on a heat-reflecting tile on the space shuttle because they're manufactured to that level of precision and exactness.

CONAN: What does the armor look like?

Col. SPOEHR: If you picture a square of ceramic tile, almost like what you would have on your bathroom floor, and then it's wrapped with a fabric, you know, a backing material. The ceramic tile, if you will, is extremely hard. In fact, it's made of boron carbide, which is the third hardest material known to man. And then it's wrapped with a material. The ceramic fractures the incoming bullets or fragments, which hit our soldiers, and then the backing material catches those fragments to provide protection for the soldier.

CONAN: And how much does it weigh?

Col. SPOEHR: That's a good question. You know, back in the days of Somalia, our soldiers were carrying around 24 pounds of body armor. What we have done since then is gone to a much more improved set of body armor. That weighs on the neighborhood of now 18 pounds for the new set of body armor.

CONAN: Eighteen pounds is not insignificant. That's a fair amount of weight.

Col. SPOEHR: Well, exactly. And we take very seriously every pound of additional weight that we put on the back of a soldier. And so we scrutinize any decision that would put an extra pound--you hear stories of soldiers even sawing off the handles of their toothbrushes because they're so concerned about weight and what they're carrying.

CONAN: Now as I understand it, a critical element in this armor is a fiber that's manufactured by only two people.

Col. SPOEHR: That's correct. There's two kinds of these fibers. There's one called SpectraShield. The other is Dyneema. And this is, again, a very technologically difficult fabric to produce. And as we compete for this material, we are also competing with folks like the police officer on the street. So there is only a finite supply of this raw material, and we believe we're getting probably our share of it.

CONAN: And, as I understand, at the urging of the Department of Defense, new production lines are being set up.

Col. SPOEHR: Exactly. We started out in March with just one producer. And again, I mentioned this is a very difficult item to produce. So you just don't start stamping this out. The precision required is into the thousandth of an inch, and it's very precise what we ask of it. We started with one producer, as I mentioned, in March. We're now with four producers in August, making 20,000 sets of tiles per month.

CONAN: And as I understand it, these small producers--is that efficient? Is that part of the solution or is that part of the problem?

Col. SPOEHR: No, it really isn't. And what we have done is we have kind of issued a solicitation saying, `If you can make a plate that meets this specifications, we will come to you.' And so these are the four right now that have been able to produce a plate. And...

CONAN: But each of them, as I understand it, has to come up with their own design.

Col. SPOEHR: Well, let me address that. But first off, the producers that we have--some are big companies and some are small. So we're not relying, if you will, on a group of cottage industries. These are some big defense industries that are producing these plates for us.

But to your question about how to make it, what we have found--our experience has been that if you give American industry a set of specifications, they will go out and in some cases they will surpass those specifications. And so relying on good old American ingenuity, if you will, we have found that it is much preferable to let them kind of refine how they produce it, and then most times we'll get a better product than dictating, like the former Soviet Union might have, saying, `Everything will meet this standard.' If we give our industry partners a little bit of leeway, in most cases they will favorably surprise us.

CONAN: Yet each company that comes up with its design--those designs all have to be individually tested because, well, you got to test this stuff, right?

Col. SPOEHR: Yes, sir. I mean--and the good news is every lot, before it's given to a soldier, is tested. And when we say tested, we don't just mean put a ruler onto it. We fire bullets at it and ensure that it meets the specifications. So whether or not--no matter what recipe they use, before we put a set of body armor on a soldier, it will have had rounds fired at that lot.

CONAN: Let me just ask you the question--and again, what I know about manufacturing could squeeze into a thimble. But if you've got a very good design, you had a competition, different companies came up with--just pick one and have them all manufacture it.

Col. SPOEHR: And you would think--and that would normally work. And what we have found, though, is if we give the companies a little bit of leeway, some of them will eventually start--for example, they'll take that backing material that I mentioned and maybe they'll fold it a different way or they'll turn it 90 degrees in some way that we had never expected. And all of a sudden we're getting better protection than we ever even dreamed was possible. So by specifying a minimum level of protection, oftentimes American industry will surprise you with what they can do.

CONAN: Yet doesn't that contribute to a delay, a time lag?

Col. SPOEHR: No, it's been our experience that it has not; that by letting them--you know, we will coach them. We will tell them what other companies are doing, but then we give them a little bit of leeway. And again, we have found that it speeds the process vs. it inhibits it.

CONAN: We've--according to The New York Times report, there were problems that resulted from one of these companies taking out--trying to, I guess, protect their industrial secrets and not share information with the other companies making them.

Col. SPOEHR: You know, you have to respect a company's ability to not share secrets that they've come up with after spending time and money on their designs. But again, because we centrally procure these things, we have a kind of a leveling effect. And so if we see one company struggling, we will go there, we will work with them, and we will try and bring them up to the standard.

CONAN: So that--this is not a problem? You don't see delays? I mean, I'm sure you understand the frustration.

Col. SPOEHR: Sure.

CONAN: I'm sure you have friends in Iraq as well.

Col. SPOEHR: Oh, yeah.

CONAN: But I'm sure you understand the frustration of, you know, why is it taking so long to get this improved body armor out there?

Col. SPOEHR: Well, you know, Neal, we take almost a completely different perspective on that. We only started making these plates in March. This is August. We're already up to 20,000 sets a month. But meanwhile, over in Iraq and everywhere where soldiers are in harm's way, they are already wearing today the best body armor in the world. And so this is an incremental improvement in the body armor that they already have, and we're working on a plan. And thus far we have met or exceeded every goal for that plan that we have set.

CONAN: Colonel Spoehr, thanks very much for being with us today.

Col. SPOEHR: It was my pleasure. Thank you.

CONAN: Colonel Thomas Spoehr, director of materiel on the Army staff. He joined us from the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia.