Gee, you weren't listening very well! Didn't Big John tell you often enough what a hero he was?

I think that the "Vietnam War Hero" came from a couple of things:
1. his medals, regardless what he did to receive them, and;
2. the current mentality of "everyone who goes is a 'hero'." - regardless of the conflict.

President Bush has no, I mean NO idea about Military men and their families. My husbands first war was Iwo Jima his last Korea. Following that he trained eager young warriors ready to jump into battle at the drop of an oil rig. I think I speak with some prior knowlege of Military life. From where I sit, Bush cares less if we loose our vibrant and promising young people. How could he know anything about bullit holes, sweat mud and flies; the smell of death all around you. No, as long as we a president and vice president who is slathered all over with oil, our kids, my grand children live in danger.
John Kerry is a hero. He suffered wounds at the hands of the enemy, and yes, poor guy, he is an intelectual. Unless you have been there keep quiet.
What the hell was the question, now?
I'd better stop while I'm still breathing.
Rosemray

Unless you have been there keep quiet?

Rosemary,
Twice America was attacked and both times I was in New York. From the second attack I could smell death all around for a couple of years after. I consider myself 'having been there'.

As long as people like you continue to bury your head in oil the grave risk is that, myself, my family, our loved ones, our kids, and our grandkids live in danger.

From where I sit, President Bush has a very clear understanding of, not just our Military and it's family but, our American spirit determined to defend ourselves from another unprovoked act of war by a ruthless, barbaric and merciless enemy.

Even though oil conspiracies swirl in your brain the very least you can do to honor our brave and courageous American military and civilians is to remember these simple words: NEVER FORGET!

Did Teddy Kennedy go to Vietnam?

f

Rosemary,
A lot has changed since Korea. I CAN speak about this because I was a military brat for 20+ years and i am now a vet of this "oil war" that you rant about.
I am sorry, but you are dead wrong.
Bush DOES understand and help with the military and families. He is the first Commander and Chief to EVER come to a warzone to have Turkey Day with his troops. I don't care if that was a publicity stunt or not, the man looks you in the eyes when he talks to you and earned my respect that day.
And your "hero" left his men. John Kerry is a coward and any soldier/leader worth anything will tell you they would never leave their men. If he ran away from a platoon of men then, what would he do when in charge of a country.
Oh, and if this war really is about "oil" like some people like to preach, then it will be YOUR grandkids that still have the ability to drive the gas guzzling SUV that you pass down to them when you're ready for a new one. THINK before you speak and realize that you are part of the oil/war/empire mechanism yourself. (If you ride horses to work and have a wood burning stove for heat, then I apologize)
Rick

Teddy who? John who?

I thought this was funny, no matter what you think of the war.

A Marine squad was marching north of Basra when they came upon an insurgent soldier badly injured and unconscious. Nearby, on the opposite side of the road, was an American Marine in a similar but less serious state. The Marine was conscious and alert.

As first aid was given to both men, the Marine was asked what had happened. The Marine reported, "I was heavily armed and moving north along the highway and coming south was a heavily armed insurgent. Seeing each other we both took cover. I yelled to him that Saddam Hussein was a miserable low-life scumbag, and he yelled back that Teddy Kennedy is a rich, good-for-nothing
fat drunk."

"We were standing there shaking hands when a truck hit us."

Hope you'll laugh it up whoever you are.

Subsunk

Rosemary, I was a shipmate of John Kerry for seven months before we both went to Vietnam. I spent twice as much time on the rivers there as he did. Although never wounded, I spent my time dodging bullets too. I am fimiliar with the "smell of death." My opinions of Bush and Kerry are the opposite of yours. Based upon your own criteria, it would seem that I am right and you are wrong. Perhaps you might wish to examine the possibility that you are in essence "trying to teach Granny how to suck eggs" by using those arguments in a forum run by and frequented by professional military folks.

Rosemary, what's your problem with oil? Because it powers our country, which you secretly hope will fail in its endeavors so that you can be right about Bush?

Unless you have been there keep quiet?

It's that whole freedom of speech thing. Rosemary doesn't understand it.

Maybe it IS time to lay off of Kerry.

I recall Senator Edwards saying that Senator Kerry would lead the country the same way he led his men in Vietnam. So, since inauguration occurs in January, Kerry's four months would be just about up now, anyway, right?

Greyhawk included this in his post "Who is this war hero he's talking about?"

You previously talked about how rare it is that conservatives & liberals (I'm a liberal) actually talk to each other, and commended DadManly for his discussion.

But it's snide comments like this that lead to a lack of communication. If you want to state a point, then state it and back it up. But a comment like that does not invite discussion, it rather causes the other side to use it's snide sayings in response.

As to Kerry, there are probably only about 5 - 10 people who truly have an opinion based on serving with him on the same boat. But it is clear from all the investigations that he was under enemy fire and he did acquite himself well.

So the next time you complain that liberals won't talk to you but instead retreat behind their standard platitudes, please look at your own posts.

thanks - dave

"He is the first Commander and Chief to EVER come to a warzone to have Turkey Day with his troops."

He may be the first President to spend Thanksgiving with the troops. But the insuation of that statement is that he was the first President to visit a warzone and that is totally false.

A couple of others:

Madison - got out of Washington just ahead of the British in the war of 1812 (granted in this case the warzone visited him).

Lincoln - When the confederates approached Washington visited some of the defenses and was looking over the top as scattered rifle fire hit the forts.

Roosevelt - traveled several times in the North Atlantic (where u-boats were sinking a lot of allied ships), and across the Med.

Also, Eleanor Roosevelt (remember that FDR had polio which limited his traveling) visited troops throughout the South Pacific including Guadacanal.

Eisenhower - visited the front lines in Korea before peace was concluded.

And I am sure there are more...

- dave

Dave,

You are absolutely right. We have had many good Presidents and many have done the right thing. Matter of fact, some of the best we've had are Democrats. For me, this discussion isn't about lib/cons or Republican/Democrat; it is about the quality of our current leader. Wasn't trying to say Bush is the best/bravest president ever, just trying to show Rosemary that she is very, very wrong in her acessment of Bush and his treatment of the military. (which was in keeping with the theme of this discussion).

Thanks-Rick

Dave
Appreciate your comment and I understand your point, but - my problem with Kerry is personal and has nothing to do with his current political affiliation. This is the key point that guys like the story's author miss - military people weren't anti-Kerry on partisan political lines, most military folks I know just don't like the guy. Believe me, a true war hero would garner a lot of support from the ranks regardless of party. This failure was more Terry McAuliffe's than Kerry's, I think Kerry would have preferred not to make the veteran status the core of his campaign, and I expect he knew he didn't have support from that quarter. (He is, after all, the guy who burned that bridge in a very calculated play to public sympathy at the time, and he knew it.) McAuliffe gave the first ever "draft dodger vs war hero with chest full of medals" quote very early last year, but too many of Kerry's contemporaries (not just the Swifties, I assure you) weren't buying in.

Kerry would have been smart to down-play rather than up-play his Vietnam service. Less is more. Perhaps it's that military culture thing... a hero is expected to blush a little and protest that "it really weren't nothin' but what needed doing" when he gets that medal pinned on his chest. In the grand scheme of things, I doubt that those who were there felt that he did anything more special or anything more venal than anyone else, either way. He was a young man in a war zone. On the other hand, presenting the brief career of a new minted officer (and as all enlisted know, it's lucky if they can blow their own noses) as qualification to lead the whole danged military wasn't very smart.

It also brought a lot of attention to those burned bridges Greyhawk mentioned.

And someone who understood the military really should have understood that.

One of the things I like to do best is start people talking!
Rosemary