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You can go here for Kerry's speech at the VFW convention in it's entirety:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/08/18/kerry.html
you're welcome dear
Posted by mrs greyhawk at August 20, 2004 12:20 PM
Second SwiftBoatVet ad:
http://a1281.v125028.c12502.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1281/12502/v0001/eaglepub.download.akamai.com/12502/sellout.wmv
Posted by htom at August 20, 2004 06:13 PM
The vet I listen to is Rassman, the man Kerry saved. The Swiftboat Vet author is a documented liar, and that ad is a lie (they didn't serve with Kerry).
The choice is between Kerry, a decorated war hero in Vietnam, and Bush, drunk and avoiding combat in Texas.
Posted by gotyrback at August 20, 2004 07:48 PM
I agree. Any vet who doesn't support Kerry is a stinking, gutless liar.
Posted by I Agree! at August 20, 2004 08:00 PM
gotyrback, why do you think Rassman is telling the truth, when the commanders of the other boats are telling a different story? Why pick one over the other 4? By his own account, Rassman spent most of the time underwater. How can he tell the difference between fire from the shore and fire coming from the boats (SOP in case it was an attack)? Someone blown off of a deck and swimming until being picked up is a poor observer. Try this the next time you’re in a public pool, while dog-paddling and diving in the water, keep track of the count and colors of vehicles passing by on the street. Now, imaging doing that in full gear and boots after you were unexpectedly shoved into the water.
How do you explain the total lack of damage for all of the boats that responded when PCF-3 hit the mine? Or, are you saying that the VC were so inept that they repeatedly missed?
This is just one more example of Kerry's history of exaggerating (to be kind) or faking (to be closer to the truth) his military experience.
Posted by Doug at August 20, 2004 09:39 PM
I suppose Kerry could used his famous line at the meeting, "I actually fought against North Viet Nam before I fought for it."
I was no hero during 'Nam. I just did my duty the best way I could, just like most of us did. Kerry insulted all of us during his '71 appearance before congress.
I haven't seen anything to change my low opinion of him in the years since.
Posted by roy at August 20, 2004 09:55 PM
I Agree!-
I don't blame you for using a nom de plume. You've just pissed off several hundred thousand gun-owning veterans.
gotyrback- what's your definition of "served with"?
Posted by Lord Whorfin at August 20, 2004 10:56 PM
Hey gotyrback... click on the link: or this URL for some important thoughts on "served with" and what it means.
Looney Liberal Left, indeed.
http://peidev.com/peimain/graphics/Washington.jpg
Posted by gonzo at August 20, 2004 11:18 PM
gotyrback
This kind of argument would be easier to believe if it were not for the fact that SBVT includes a couple hundred men, 70 or so of whom also have Purple Hearts. And SBVT includes eyewitnesses who were at all the battles.
Kerry really does not have many people on his side numerically.
But good luck with that.
Posted by Bostonian at August 20, 2004 11:33 PM
"and that ad is a lie (they didn't serve with Kerry)."
Not surprisingly, the party whose leader famously insisted on the narrowest of meanings of the word "is" now insists on narrowing the meaning of the word "with."
The members of Kerry's crews served "with" him. So did the members of his flotilla. Crews of boats that operate in close formation, and go back at night to sleep in the same building or ship, serve "with" each other by any fair definition.
Pathetic pedantry, that's what it is. Since ad hominem attacks and hairsplitting semantics are the least effective evidence for any proposition, it's generally fair to assume that when someone resorts to these things, they're all he's got.
I think an Admiral Boorda response to this situation would be a little extreme for Kerry, but a public apology for his embellishments is Kerry's only honorable option.
Posted by Tom Eastmond at August 20, 2004 11:34 PM
"I agree. Any vet who doesn't support Kerry is a stinking, gutless liar."
Name-calling. Heh.
Well, when the balance of testimony is not on your side, that's the only "argument" that you have left.
Additionally, with the polls showing that a majority of vets favor GWBush, you end up calling a majority of American Veterans "stinking, gutless, liars". Do you really want to do that? Will those sentiments win them for Kerry? Not likely. It will drive them to Bush, or drive them to stay home on November 2nd.
---Tom Nally, New Orleans
Posted by Tom Nally at August 20, 2004 11:43 PM
Shame on me.
I didn't get the insult til about '80. In '71 it seemed sensible. And from the bottom of my heart I want to say how sorry I am. I won't be fooled again.
Simon - Tonkin Bay Yacht Club '66
What is the War Hero Afraid of?
Form 180. Release ALL the records.
Posted by M. Simon at August 20, 2004 11:44 PM
Kerry backers are reduced to name-calling and asserting new lies about the integrity of the 30-to-1 contemporary associates who have signed onto this campaign ashamed of Kerry's wartime behavior rather than proud of it. The Kerry campaign's frantic cover-up attempts, over the past week especially, are embarrassing and difficult to watch. Kerry's speech before the VFW was the worst squirmer I can remember--and Kerry knew it; he rushed his applause lines so blatantly that even without seeing the audience, TV viewers knew he was desperately trying to hide the silence that he knew would ensue. This man may end up president (the several-year promotion of our enemies' interests in order to diss GWB has worked well with the coalition of dependents, grievance-groups, socialists, and plain old clueless ingrates that inhabit the protection of this nation's vast freedoms), but if so it won't be for any reason other than that one of our political parties has become surpassingly proficent in packaging mass-market dishonesty.
Posted by Buddy Larsen at August 21, 2004 12:10 AM
"The vet I listen to is Rassman, the man Kerry saved. The Swiftboat Vet author is a documented liar, and that ad is a lie (they didn't serve with Kerry)."
Rassman didn't "serve" with Kerry either, pal!! He was blown into the water by an explosion. Kerry left the scene, came back to where the other boats were trying to help the disabled boat, and picked up Rassman, who was thrown out of a boat by the explosion. Listen to what the guys who were there that day are saying, stop trying to re-write their history in your own words!!!!
Posted by Della DeMucia at August 21, 2004 12:25 AM
Well, gotyrback, here's how I see Kerry and his choice to campaign on Vietnam.
My favorite uncle was with the 275th infantry regiment, 70th division (Trail Blazers) in WWII. Like Kerry, he came home with a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and several Purple Hearts.
He won them by being in the thin infantry line at Bastogne, with no artillery backup, absorbing the brunt of the German Nordwind attack. In very rough terrain, badly undermanned, he and his comrades held off the Germans in sub-zero weather with no food or warmth for days.
His hands and feet froze to the point of permanent nerve damage.
He single-handedly took out multiple German pillboxes.
Nearly half the regiment was lost in a few days'
fighting.
He thawed out and did it again.
He nearly died from his wounds the 2nd time around. In fact, his commander later told my aunt that he had started drafting the papers for a Medal of Honor because he was sure my uncle wouldn't pull through the 2nd time.
When it was all over, he came home, raised a family and worked at an ordinary job.
Kerry makes me want to spit in disgust. I know a REAL war hero.
And I haven't mentioned my uncle's 6 other brothers and his brother in law who also served in WWII combat. My father, who had a plane and a ship blown out from underneath him. My uncle who was in the first wave of paratroopers at Normandy AND at Bastogne. The uncle shot down on a bombing run, who eventually made his way to England with the help of the Free French.
I've been around life long enough to be able to judge character. I work with military every day and know their strengths -- and their weaknesses.
It's pretty clear to me who is telling the truth and who is posturing and cynically using our troops for personal ambition.
Posted by daughter, wife, neice of vets at August 21, 2004 12:55 AM
Add to Kerry's hiding behind a sypathetic press corp, he is using lawyers to try and suppress the free speech of those who make it possible for everyone. Shameful. Remember Mark Herron who tried to disqualify nearly 2000 absentee ballots of military personnl in Florida of the 2000 prez election.The Democratic Party. They hide behind scumbag journalists and lawyers.
Posted by mikeh-gulfwar91 at August 21, 2004 01:13 AM
Just to fill out the story, gotyrback, close relatives of mine also saw combat in Korea, Vietnam and Gulf I. I know a fair number of Gulf 1 vets, including Armor, Infantry and some special ops guys.
Like I said, it's not hard to tell the real guys from the poseurs when you look carefully. Kerry ain't the real stuff.
But what more than pisses me off is the way he is trying to lever himself into the White House, not only by claiming to be a real hero, but also by dirty strongarm tactics against some who are.
Posted by daughter, wife, neice of vets at August 21, 2004 01:17 AM
Why is it that the Democrats response to anything they do not like is to sue, oh yeah, they are lawyers. File with the FEC, sue the swiftvets and remember try to block the military votes like they did in FL in 2000, now try to block sale of the swiftvet book, Unfit for Command. Are the Johns scared? Bless the vets Sept 12. God bless our military who we could not survive without.
Posted by Pat in NC at August 21, 2004 01:30 AM
For the number of "threats to sue", libel and slander threats, and "win by intimidation" attitude that John Effin' Kerry has brought to this campaign so far, I think he has a real winner there, with his "boy" John Edwards......they can't refute any of the charges that have been brought into daylight about Kerry, so it's all about "suppression" (the book) and intimidation (the threats to television stations NOT to run the Swift Boat Vets for Truth ads). Some "leadership material" being shown here!!!!!!
Posted by Rhonda Thompson at August 21, 2004 01:42 AM
The Donks are in complete disarray. Running around in circles, screaming and flapping their hands like a bunch of little girls. It's great.
Posted by Drugstore Cowgirl at August 21, 2004 03:24 AM
Hanoi John and his band of suck-ups are an embarrassment to this country and the brave men who fought, and those who died, for this nation in countless battles and wars.
His "SEARING" false testamony about the Viet Nam warfighters was treason. He should be tried and convicted for the self-admitted atrocities he committed, and then again for treason: giving aid and comfort to the enemy during a time of war. (Just refer to the exhibit in Hanoi, showing Kerry as a war hero to the OTHER SIDE!)
He is not only not fit to serve as Commmander in Chief, he is not fit to be walking among free men, or holding ANY elective office anywhere in this great nation. He should be behind bars for the remainder of his pathetic self-serving life.
He should withdraw from the Presidential race, and give way to someone who is truly qualified. But everyone knows that the burning personal ambition of this sociopath will never allow him to do anything other than further his own needs.
Beyond the damage he did with that testamony to Congress, Kerry spent years in Congress promoting normalization with Viet Nam. How? By discrediting any reports of live US soldiers, and if he couldn't discredit it, he ignored it. Later, he shredded all the evidence.
With Kerry, "No men left behind" was "No evidence of men left behind".
They are still there: either as bones or prisoners.
What will we do to get them back? Elect the man who left them there to rot, as he stepped on their lives to further his political ambitions?
Not just "NO" ... "HELL NO!!!"
Posted by Reaganite at August 22, 2004 01:58 AM
I served 3 years with the RVN "junk force" and RAGs. Anyone who served is entitled to an opinion, but I cannot abide Kerry's "padding his resume" and turning on those he now refers to as his "band of brothers". If you feel the need to embellish an otherwise undistinguished war experience while hoisting a few with friends, that is one thing and we all know those who have done it. But to run for the highest office in our country using a fabricated war record indicates a lack of character which would seem to exclude one from the office sought. As to his awards, while most awards given in Nam were much deserved I also saw at first hand some junior officer participate in the "medal of the month club" to further their own careers and not all of those were even vaguely deserved. Having read extensivly on the whole affair, I can only conclude that the swift boat vets who are contesting Kerry's character and accounts of his (very limited) Viet Nam service are far more credible that the senator.
Posted by 3 years in-country at August 22, 2004 06:13 PM
At http://www.politicsus.com/011704fjk.htm is a press release from the Kerry campaign last January.
It tells the story of how Kerry saved Rassmann -- or a story, anyway. The press release rather differs from later accounts, and all the differences make Kerry look better.
But it does have a direct quote from Kerry:
‘I remember the day and the moment we [Rassman and Kerry] last met; the lingering bond between us comes from the shared experience of our service,’ Kerry said. ‘I told Jim what I tell the thousands of veterans I have met in Iowa: As president, I will never,ever,forget your service.’ Kerry added.
Right. Forgetting their service is something he's already done. Now, let's see if we can get him to remember his testimony, and explain it.
Posted by Stephen M. St. Onge at August 23, 2004 05:41 AM
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