Hide Comments
The suicide numbers? Lower than for society as a hole. (And I do mean hole.) This means suicide rates among 60 minutes viewers are higher than for GIs in Iraq.
Posted by Dennis Ahern at April 13, 2004 11:24 AM
Is this the entire piece? Or has it been edited? I'm not sure Andy's very coherent here, but before I question his lucidity I'd ask if this has been edited. Maybe its too early in the AM for me but...
...what the hell exactly is he trying to say!?
Posted by Dan Searles at April 13, 2004 11:34 AM
Here's a thought: Disney's Alamo film is failing. Could it be because it portrays American fighting men as lowlifes fighting for an evil cause? Could Disney have miscalculated America's mood?
Posted by Gunther at April 13, 2004 12:28 PM
Just saw a Today show piece (and
I do mean piece) showing how the support for the President is fading at Ft Campbell. They supported this with one chopped up, heavily edited quote from a woman they caught putting groceries in her car, then a young woman saying "we need someone new with different ideas in there". Following that they had a GI saying he supported the president, but then following that they showed two seconds of loud cheering from a Presidential visit there in 2001 followed by a 2-second clip with "more subdued" cheering from his most recent trip there. Claim: He's losing support!
Of course the whole thing was interspersed with the reporter making unsubstantiated claims - certainly the script he'd written before he left New York.
They sent their reporter out there to do a story, he couldn't find one, so he did the story anyway! They even had to splice in an interview with some mother of a wounded GI in Phillidelphia who was protesting the war - no where near Campbell!
How low will they go?
Posted by Dennis Ahern at April 13, 2004 01:19 PM
Blake was from Texas, he grew up very poor
With no other options,
he signed on for the Marine Corp.
A war is on, have you forgotten,
He was sure Iraq was responsible for bin Laden.
He'd call liberals weak,
and parasites to the nation
Little did he know, they just had an education.
For Blake believed Bush was God's anoited one
Guess he forgot Jesus is God's only son.
And Bush would not lie,
and his rhetoric was so clear
It gave Blake some purpose,
and he had nothing to fear
He was sent to Iraq, he fought hard and brave
Six months later, he was six feet in a grave.
Blake's mother cried and asked why why why,
why must her son lie six feet beneath?
Would someone just play her that song by Toby Keith??!!!!
Posted by joemillionaire at April 13, 2004 01:36 PM
His op-ed is all over the map.
His 5 questions are asked in various ways to soldiers daily by the media. You have to read different sources and recognize that sometimes the answers may not be what you were expecting or wanted to hear.
The suicide totals, as he writes them, don't show anything because they are not portrayed within the totality of the deployment numbers (130,000). Plus, suicide historically tends to increase during conflict. While statistically significant (about 3-5 higher per 100,000 than the normal rate for soldiers), the numbers are nothing to be ridiculuously alarmed about. Yet.
His comments about our soldiers are more true than many will admit. Not every soldier is a hero. Very few are. We have made the term meaningless. The overwhelming number of soldiers simply perform their duty honorably. Nothing more and nothing less and nothing to be ashamed of. However, to call soldiers "victims" is a cheap shot and it dishonors all of us who wear the uniform.
This is actually pro-George W. Bush if you read it very carefully, but critical of the Administration. I think an honest man will agree that Bush has been ill-served by some in his administration, but the President places too much emphasis on loyalty and therefore has failed to clean house like he should have.
This mantra about the Reserves and National Guard getting the shaft has got to stop. We don't have them on the books for the county fair or in case of floods or snow storms. Take a look which level of government really funds the NG budget. It ain't the states. The RC role within the national military strategy and its force composition and structures and manpower levels needs to be fixed, no doubt. But, they ALL knew what the possible consequences of getting the free tuition and that nice check every month was. Frankly, I think many self-appointed guardians of the Guard are focusing on a very small minority who are chronic whiners.
Posted by A Serving Soldier at April 13, 2004 02:33 PM
JoeMillionaire
Once again, as I said the last time you posted it, that's a very nice poem. Here in Mudville we honor the fallen who gave all in the cause of freedom. I've checked though and can't find a Marine from Texas named "Blake".
http://www.militarycity.com/valor/honor2.html
You just invented him, he represents no one, and you're not funny.
Posted by Dennis Ahern at April 13, 2004 02:36 PM
As I point out at my blog, Rooney's a jackass.
The suicide rate for all Finns is 21.9 per 100,000.
For New Zealanders age 20 to 24 the rate is 49.7 per 100,000, nearly four times as high for Americans serving in Iraq. Suggesting that a stint in Iraq could fix a serious social problem for the Kiwis.
http://travellingshoes.blogspot.com
Posted by H.D. Miller at April 13, 2004 02:59 PM
HERO: A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life.
VOLUNTEER: A person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily.
We stand for freedom. That is our conviction for ourselves; that is our only commitment to others.
John F. Kennedy (1917 - 1963)
I think of a hero as someone who understands the degree of responsibility that comes with his freedom. Bob Dylan (1941 - )
America was founded on fighting for freedom. America was attacked in 2001 because of our freedom. People born in America do not know what it's like to not have freedom so it's hard for them to know what we are really fighting for.
A lot of Americans take for granted what they have and what the people in the past have fought for.
Posted by Machelle at April 13, 2004 03:07 PM
I've been reading letters from Marines in Fallujah this morning. I think Rooney would be surprised by the answers they'd give to those questions.
On the other hand, there are doubtless lots of servicemen who would give the answers he expects. Question 3, for example--who hasn't felt on occasion that the REMFs were idiots? Read a copy of Up Front, and you realize that it was pervasive through the ranks in the European theatre of WWII. That didn't mean we should have lain down arms, or that the cause wasn't worth fighting for.
Bill Maudlin was a finer war journalist than any writing today. He knew what Rooney doesn't, which is where the line is--yes, it's miserable, and yes, soldiers dream of little else except coming home, but "have we failed so badly that we should pack up and get out before more of you are killed"? I'd be surprised to hear a fighting man agree to that.
Posted by Grim at April 13, 2004 04:49 PM
Stark raving loony. Past his prime. Fit to be retired. Speaking long past the expiration date on his mind...
Tragic, really. I think he used to be funny. Or I used to be stupid.
Posted by David Blalock at April 13, 2004 04:50 PM
Grim, I'm with you. Loaded questions. I'm in Europe, and I'd answer questions 3 and 4 exactly as Rooney thinks any GI would.
Posted by Greyhawk at April 13, 2004 04:55 PM
I have a couple of questions for Rooney and any others out there who would not support our troops.
Rooney is an idiot. "They are not heroes, they are victims". Oh shut up. This is a volunteer military, no one was forced to join up. Eveyrone knew, everyone agreed to serve this country in a time of war.
They get medals pinned on them because they deserve it because some people don't have the guts to go out there and fight.
And for him to imply that every single soldier out there is scared shitless, shaking like a leaf....he doesn't know a DAMN thing about the military does he?
How many of them are chomping at the bit to get going and take out the enemy and complete their mission?!
I am so sick of this "civilian" trick that people like Rooney play on those who are unknowing to fool them into thinking that every one in the military is a scared little kid thrust into a sandbox with live rounds, wide eyed, naive and wanting his mommy.
What an asshole.
Posted by Serenity at April 13, 2004 05:35 PM
Andy Rooney is a curmudgeonly asshole whose service in WWII was to be a reporter for Stars & Stripes. That made him an expert on everything and everybody. I've heard him run down several famous generals -- after they were dead -- including Patton and LeMay. With that much hate in him, I wonder why he's lived so long.
Posted by George at April 13, 2004 05:54 PM
Rooney's questions are legitimate, but from a soldier's perspective, it's too early to read much into any responses. In 1967, while in Vietnam, I would have answered, "Yes; doing what we set out to do; out of touch; trip home, don't care." In 1970, I would have answered, "No; failed; way, way out of touch; trip home, hah-hah-hah-hah." This is why we shouldn't read too much into any pro-war GI input or, conversely, gloom-and-doom. It's appropriate for the political leadership and the American people to debate now, but it's too soon to read much into troop input. Talk to them three years from now.
IOTM that no well-balanced GI in a war zone thinks he's a hero merely by virtue of being there and doing his job. Civilian standards are understandably lower, given the differences in environments. Most civilians shudder at the thought of two consecutive days without bathing. Ours is a society where cops who never draw a weapon in their career and firefighters who never fight a fire are deemed "heros." Modern definition of hero: "Someone who does important and occasionally dangerous things that I don't want to do."
Posted by lost in rhetoric at April 13, 2004 05:59 PM
My dad knew Ernie Pyle. Ernie Pyle was a friend of my dad's. And Mr. Rooney, you're not fit to wash Ernie Pyle's jockstrap.
Posted by Chrees at April 13, 2004 06:14 PM
I think it goes deeper than that, concerning Andy Rooney. Look at journalism over the past 20 years. Andy Rooney's once lighthearted, ordinary guy approach to journalism has been copied endlessly by those younger, more talented and better looking. He's getting to be like last week's newspaper, fit only for fish-wrap! So, what better way to stay in print and on (the all but unwatchable) "60 Minutes" than to be controversial and outrageous? Hey... Joe Pine and Howard Stern made careers out of that!
It's time that he retired to a park bench someplace or moved to Florida and took up Bingo.
Posted by TrooperJohnSmith at April 13, 2004 06:29 PM
I used to like 60 Minutes. Enjoyed it even.
but Rooney over the last 5 yrs or so has really made it in to his personal soapbox.
Suicide in the Service?
Has someone pointed out to him that it was going on before the Iraqi war?
While I was stationed at Ft lewis a poor young man hung himself in his locker for god sakes.
Sadly depression is an emotion and it occurs within human beings.
It also happens nationwide. He needs to get his facts straight. One more case of the media trying to "Paint it Black"
Posted by BloodSpite at April 13, 2004 07:48 PM
I remember when 60 minutes said ATCs were killers. After 20 years riding them and in my late forties I must have agreed, and quit riding. I just can't do it for 20 more years waiting to die. Also because it is just too crowded in the dunes.
I remember during my tour in the service, 75-79, reading about suicides in the military too. It was a problem then and it appears it still is.
Andy got it wrong though, like most others.
When someone joins the military at 18 they truly don't know what is coming their way and some just can't deal with it. But like any other suicide, the person had other things going wrong in there mind in the first place. Don't say it's because they got sent to war. That may have been the match that lit the fuse, but it wasn't the reason. The fuse was there just waiting to be lit.
I also know many "do" enter the military with the thought that they can get some money for college or other thoughts, but don't tell me people get through boot and don't have the slightst clue that they could easily and quickly be sent into battle. That, you will never make me believe.
These days if you don't like your military service all you have to do is ask and you're out.
The men and women serving today are just as much heros as any who ever, ever, ever wore the uniform.
I know two Army men just back from Iraq. Both are very happy to be home, but both will tell you they went because they were ordered to do a job and they went out and did it. I asked.
Andy you may not like it but it is really just that simple.
And to point out a really under used cliche,(In my humble opinion)
"You have the freedom, and the right, and the soapbox to say the things you say directly because of the heros of the past 228 years. All of them." You have used one other right WE gave you. The right to say "They aren't heros." Enjoy it. It is a very expensive gift.
Posted by Roger O'Day at April 14, 2004 10:46 AM
I what think Rooney means by "victims" is that although the service people are volunteers, they are in Iraq because Bush and his gang tricked, deceived and lied to Congress to give Bush war powers, thus putting the soldiers in a war that many people think is illegal and others think was totally unjustified. If those circumstances are correct, yes, of course the dead and injured or sickened American soldiers and the others who are taken away from home and family, who may lose jobs are victims. Hell, there would be no other way to realistically describe them.
I think getting our troops out of Iraq is now the first priority. We need to stop the bleeding. False pride of Bush and the other jerks around him cannot be allow to justify the continue occupation and death and destruction. America, our beloved country, has already suffered significant damage to our international prestige, from the administration's lying and bad judgment. No more death or injuries to our soldiers should be tolerated.
Posted by pete at April 14, 2004 05:28 PM
pete:
Do us all a favor and lay off the "Congress was tricked into supporting the war" crap. Give me a break, please. There was ample time for debate, investigation and inquiry and no rational adult in Congress has any business claiming they were "tricked". If they do, they should be ashamed of themselves - this is tantamount to admitting that they weren't paying attention and that they are incompetent.
Intelligence is uncertain - adults accept that. Congress needs to quit whining, quit the recriminations, and get over it. If even Saddam's own people weren't sure what he had in the way of WMD, how in the bloody hell was our intel supposed to know?
A commander makes decisions based on the best info available at the time and then lives with those decisions. People need to get over themselves and move on.
As to being heroes, I personally admire and respect our armed forces immensely. However, I also believe they are doing their jobs. They are not victims - neither are they heroes unless they do something above and beyond the call of duty. I know I'll take heat for saying this, but it is what I honestly believe. This is why we have the Medal of Honor - for those instances when there is conspicuous gallantry or extreme bravery - to me, that is a hero.
Do I admire them? Of course. Do I think they're brave beyond what I could ever aspire to? Yes. But I guess I recognize degrees of bravery and to me, "heroic" is up a couple of notches on the scale. Which by no means is meant to disparage what these brave men and women do every day. It's just that I think most of them would not describe themselves as heroes.
It's just not their way. To them, they're just doing their job: quietly, with little fanfare, with competence and honor. And we owe them our love, our eternal gratitude, and our deepest respect.
Posted by Cassandra at April 15, 2004 12:03 AM
Rooney seems to have gone off the deep end. I'm sure the people buying ads in Tribune papers and TV spots during 60 Minutes are going to get itchy if this subject floats to the top. God bless ANY Soldier, Marine, Sailor or Airman past or present for everything they give or gave for this country. So many people have no idea, and that's a shame.
Posted by Rumrunner at April 15, 2004 01:54 AM
What probably prompted Rooney's article was this article "Why Are Victims Our Only War Heroes?"
http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,NI_Why_0404,00.html
I guess Rooney of the draft era is somehow attempting to tell us that some of his drafte comrades-in-arms were brave but members of the present all volunteer military are not.
Posted by Limpet at April 15, 2004 04:43 PM
The solidiers?
Whether they are heroes or not is a meaningles question. Whether they are living or not is the more pressing question. When we speak of supporting our troops in war and labeling them heroes, in war...it is disgusts me. How do you support them at home? Do you rip them off when they need a plumber? Do you jones them when they want the 0% financing for their truck. Do you give them a kindly hello when in the grocery store. Do you consider them heroes in times of peace? Probably not!! Pitiful!
Posted by jasper at April 15, 2004 05:49 PM
As a Soldier, and former soldier of OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom), I have come home to both a heros welcome and a vilians scoffing. I have since left the military to join the ranks of thousands of college students to persue an education. It has come to my attention that the "educated americans" that call them selves Progressives, or librals say they "support our troops" but ride around with a bumper sticker on there Toyota Camery that says "NOT IN MY NAME", meaning the War in Iraq. These individuals say they "Support" our tropps but not what they are doing... that makes no sence! Thats like saying, I hate football, but I love football players....??? Does this make sence to any of you?
I maybe only one man, with only one voice, but I speak for a lot of Americans... namely those soldeirs acrossed the world that cringe at the fact that people back home (safe) can sit at there desks, there podiums in classrooms, or in front of a camera on CNN and just spew just such rampid hate for Soldiers and Marines doing there jobs (that they DID volunteer for). We dont want nor need a someone saying that what they are doing is something getting closer and closer to Vietnam.... that isnt ever a comparison, they are two seperate animals...
This also reminds me a of a Quote by the late John Stuart Mill;
" War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
...in closeing...
I also say, "NOT IN MY NAME", I wont be represented by those individuals who say bring our troops home because what they are doing is un-just acause for them to die for. I say, "NOT IN MY NAME". I will willing give my life to save the life of another and preservation of life liberty and the pursute of happiness. So "NOT IN MY NAME" I say finally...to those whom will not give themselves to a greater cause for the selfishness of self-preservation. Thank you...
-SGT Henke, Jason A.
1-30 IN BN, 3BCT, 3ID
US ARMY
Posted by JasHen4 at April 15, 2004 10:55 PM
While I think Rooney has gone a little bit off the deep end here, he's always had a curmudgeonly attitude. This is nothing new.
Also, Rooney had a pretty good record in WW-II (BRonze Star), so I doubt he's anti miliary per-se.
Posted by Jon Juzlak at April 16, 2004 12:17 AM
It is absoulutly essential that we (The Colilition) gain control of Iraq. This is a strategic plan that is far reaching.
We are on the start of the downslope on the production cost to consumer cost of gas/oil. The gap will only get larger and prices higher. We will need that oil and that central locale to influence/control the areas around Persia. For our nation to remain on top in decades to come we want...no we MUST be in control of Iraq.
Posted by rumrunner at April 16, 2004 12:19 AM
Cassandra, since you called on me I will continue my thoughts on this deal in view of your being upset with the use of the word "tricked" in reference to Congress. "Trick" as defined by Dictionary.com, "An act or procedure intended to achieve an end by deceptive or fraudulent means." I stand by my charge of the conduct of Bush and his gang of liars, deceivers and tricksters, Rumsfeld, Powell, Perlman and a host of others and Cheney (he is so far out of it, he still claiming WMDs in Iraq, he should he put out to pasture or a place for the mentally unfit.) Oh no wait, wait, I just saw a Net story about some people under cover of darkness maybe bringing alleged WMDs into Iraq now. Are they to be "discovered" shortly? Any comments on this story? Greyhawk, do you have any more on this?
I think it is obvious that Congress, as individuals, was not paying attention and there are many incompetents in that body making it all the easier to trick them into making a stupid decision.
"How was our intel supposed to know?" They are paid to know or say they don't know. They are not paid to make up stories. If it was well known the intel on Iraq was like a piece of Swiss cheese, then why in heavens name was it relied on anyway and even pumped up to to make it believable and threatening. Rumsfeld was even said "I/we know" Sadaam has WMDs, north of Baghdad, east and west (whatever the hell that meant.) You know Chairman Mao was to have said "a revolution is not a picnic.) Well, neither is war.
I think Bush phonyed up the Iraq threat and he is getting a lot of people killed because of it. that is why our soldiers are victims.
Screw that idea US has to go over there to protect our oil supplies.
Cassandra I like your other sentiments.
Posted by pete at April 16, 2004 06:47 AM
....Pete....
Read my comment above... We dont need people like you defending people like me. I served my time over in Iraq and in this nations Military. I dont believe anyone whom is in the military and takes there job seriously (Im talking about Combat troops and not a Personel Clerk in an Office) wants someone like you, saying that we are Victims (The US Military). We all signed up to do a job, knowing very well that maybe, just maybe, one day we would have to be called to some far off land to conduct our "Business".
I always love hearing Librals say "No War for OIL", well I live in California now, and I pay $2.35 a gallon for GAS.... wheres all this Oil we supposedly went to war over for the Librals? I dont know..... maybe they can "Spin" something up for me to think about?
The last thing a Soldier or Marine needs to hear, is a wineing "Advocate" telling us we are not fighting and DIEING for "nothing".... oh, but wait, its just like a libral to think of a Soldier or Marine as a Robot and nothing more then that... something they can just toss about and call on to go into Kosovo, or Bosnia, or Haiti...?
And finally, Pete, Im glad, after your quote from Mao (you have your little Red Book too?) you said... "WAr is no picnic." How do you know, have you ever been in a WAR? Can you even comment on the matter? I think not. However, you are right, War isnt a Picnic....its hell, im sure another great man said that, but he aint a Communist.
Thank you for your time,
-SGT Henke, Jason A.
1-30 IN BN, 3BCT, 3ID
US Army
Posted by JasHen4 at April 16, 2004 07:56 AM
Andy Rooney is nothing more than another JOHN KERRY & JANE FONDA anti-war fanatic and drapes his poor excuse of being an American under the guise of being a 60-minutes commentator.
Think about the questions he poses, and you begin to realize they are shallow and meaningless.
America is home of the FREE...because of the BRAVE! Freedom is never FREE! And our brave soldiers understood that the day they enlisted! Do they want to willingly go into combat? Who does? But if they get the call, they pack their stuff and defend this great nation and we are FREE because of these great soldiers.
People like Rooney are the benefactors of the choices these soldiers make...and the soldiers fight for that very right...for them to sit back and poke fun at every administration that sends our troops into battle.
All of our soldiers are indeed heroes. And if you look at our military decorations and awards...you will find that they begin with Letters of Recognition, Medals for Achievements, Commendations, Meritorious Service, then up the chain to Purple Hearts, and on up to Congressional Medal of Honor, etc.
My hat is off to all of our military personnel, throughout the world! Taking the fight to the enemy so our nation does not have to suffer another attack like 9-11.
Rooney was also quick to make fun of Mel Gibson's movie by saying he "wouldn't waste $9.00 just to get a couple of laughs!" That told me all I needed to know about this person. One does not have to be religious to understand and respect another person's religious beliefs and convictions. he crossed the line and exposed his true character, or lack thereof.
L. L. Josephs
U.S. Army First Sergeant (ret.)
Posted by Larry Josephs at April 19, 2004 07:01 PM
I see a dangerous trend taking place here. People who vehemently cry that America is the land of the free quickly resort to ridiculous insults when presented with an opinion contrary to their own. Let me remind you that the freedom to criticize our leaders and military is what separates democracy and autocracy. There is nothing 'un-American' or 'un-patriotic' about such criticisms, and shame on you for insinuating such. I would argue that a man who has made good use of his freedoms of speech for over 50 years is more 'American' than an 18 year old who blindly follows orders.
To respond specifically to George: History now understands Patton to be a colorful general inflated to the status of superhero by a people who desperately needed one. Andy Rooney was one of the first reporters to break-down these myths. He accurately showed the world a Patton who's leadership was marked by an extreme lack of logistical understanding, an unrealistic assessment of the capabilities of the American soldier, a complete lack of political understanding and an unhealthy lust for glory. The public may have lost a hero, but they gained the truth.
Posted by Eric at April 26, 2004 05:18 PM
Speaking as the proud wife of United States Marine currently deployed in Iraq, I am outraged at the article by Andy Rooney stating that our troops there are not heroes. I say to Andy, do you think that you are some kind of hero?!?!?! What have you ever done in the defense of freedom and democracy? I'd like to see him put up or shut up. Let's see old Mr. Rooney over there doing what our troops are doing. Not only are those men and women who are proudly serving their country overseas heroes, but so are the loved ones that they have left behind. Try to tell my Mother-in-Law or any Mother of military personnel that their son or daughter is not a hero!
My husband is in Iraq for the second time in less than year and let me tell you that not only is he a hero in my eyes, but I think in the eyes of most of the citizens of this great country, he is as well. Of course, the troops want to come home, who wouldn't? However, they know that they are performing their job and are doing it in the name of freedom. I think we now live in such an "instant" world, where everyone expects results in an instant and everyone (Nationally and Internationally) expects that as soon as the war was declared "over" that would be the end of our involvement. Are we forgetting the growing pains our own nation went through to become free? It was not something that happened overnight, and the situation in Iraq is one that will take time and patience.
I usually would not reply to statements like the ones made by Mr. Rooney, but I am beyond outraged at the comments made and think that if that is really how he feels, then he should go live in somewhere else, maybe France would suit him better. This is the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave and Mr. Rooney, you are neither a hero or brave in my opinion, if you feel that our troops over in Iraq are not heroes. You obviously have NO IDEA what a real hero is. A hero is our Marine, Soldier, Airman, National Guardsman, etc. as well as the Firefighters and Policemen that are giving and have given their lives to protect our country and the freedom that we all take for granted. We should be proud and supportive of their efforts and let them know that their country is behind them 100%.
Stacy Muston, Folsom, Pennsylvania
Posted by Stacy Muston at April 30, 2004 09:22 PM
I do not watch 60 Minutes, or Any Rooney, anymore.
I could care less about those idiots, and other journalists like them.
I need my sleep, and to lower my heart rate.
So I am happier knowing the truth.
Listening to that drivel does no good for me.
Posted by Daniel McAndrew at May 2, 2004 01:46 AM
Let me first say i loathe Andy Rooney and everything that he stands for.
... But why the hell would they be heroes? They have absolutely nothing to do in Iraq. Just a bunch of mindless idiots played by the government like the rest of the people in this country of imbiciles.
Posted by Alex at May 3, 2004 01:53 AM
Hey Alex, Get the hell out of our country if you feel that way! This country doesn't need you here. And if you EVER refer to my husband, who is a career Marine, as a mindless idiot again, I'll make sure he comes to see you when he returns and you can tell him and his whole unit that and deal with the ass whooping you deserve for saying something like that.
They are heroes because they are fighting for your right to be able to speak out your ass as you are doing right now. They are heroes, because they are brave enough to volunteer for that job. They are heroes because they are putting their lives at risk for this cause of freedom. And by the way, if they are doing nothing in Iraq, how is it that Iraq is being rebuilt?
If we are a country of imbiciles, then, based on your comments, you must be the leader, you jerk off.
Posted by Stacy Muston at May 3, 2004 04:34 PM
There is a lot of debate back and forth about they are heroes or they are not and whether Andy Rooney is a jerk or not but has any of these comments changed your view of things? To choose to be in the military is an awesome responsibility. To join in today's world means that you might go at any minute to the far reaches of the world to defend a people that are being oppressed. I come from a military family and am very proud of their contributions. At the same time I don't think the U.S. should be the police of the world.
The great thing about all these comments is that it shows we do have the priviledge of debating points. We are allowed to be communists(far left) or facists(far right) because of what people in the past have fought for against enemies with those exact philosophies. I don't agree with everything that this government chooses to do(Both executive and legislative branches) but I do respect the offices and the balance of power and so to blame one or the other is inappropriate. The constitution and other legislation make both branches responsible for the choice.
What it boils down to at this point is, do we take the proper methods in a republic to change policies that we think are wrong but at the same time respecting the views of others or are we just spewing hate with the attitude that my view is the only view and everyone else is an idiot. I do believe that there are idiots out there but my guess is that they are in the minority.
Posted by Kevin Kinlin at May 3, 2004 09:55 PM
From the April 13, 2004 blog regarding Rooney’s column:
Our Soldiers In Iraq Aren't Heroes?
Greyhawk at Mudville writes:
I know, the author's intention is to provoke strong reaction but there's more to it, and it sounds too much like a trial balloon to me.
There's an unpleasant shift occurring in this country, it was evidenced by Kos' comments and more and more often by the tone of a few increasingly high profile pundits. "We support the troops but..." and the "but" part is becoming more outrageous every day. The "support the troops" part, meanwhile, is increasingly blurred.
To be honest I'm convinced a seething dislike of all things military is just below the skin of a lot of people in America, I think it dates back to certain Vietnam-era congressional hearings and similar events, and I think we may see it surface more and more often in the near future.
I hope I'm wrong. Let's talk about it.
I think it's a miscalculation on your part to think this appraisal applies to the country as a whole. It might be an accurate appraisal of a small minority of the country but not the majority, not by a long shot. Though some might say the country splits near 50/50 along ideological lines, the truth is a bit more nuanced.
Though in any given election, near half might vote for either particular political party, the mainstream American culture of God and country is deeply ingrained in 60 – 70% of the country. Of the conservative half, nearly all support the military, our soldiers, and everything they stand for. Of the other half, certainly there is a small vocal segment that is anti-war and anti-American but these are merely the far left elements of what might be termed the left-of-center half of America. These hard leftists comprise less than a third of Democrat voters and certainly less than 20% of the country as a whole. There are plenty of America-loving, patriotic Democrat-voting citizens who admire the military and think of each soldier as nothing less than a defender of freedom.
The problem is that the media and entertainment industries are mostly far left and so one can be left with an impression that the country is much more in tune with fringe political opinion than is accurate. Even many people who might be discouraged by the way the war is going or who don’t agree with the president’s policies still love and support the troops.
Never think that the overwhelming majority of the American people aren't behind their guys and gals. We revere the folks who protect our homeland and our liberty as well as protecting that of the rest of the world. If it is true that the last best hope for the world is America, then this last best hope is being carried forward by the American soldier.
God Bless you all
Posted by Sam Raybourn at May 7, 2004 06:15 PM
Thanks for the insight on the National Guard Rooney, after all, you know exactly what everyone joins for. Thats it, just college money. Thats all we are in it for. Yeah right, take a step back and look at the whole picture. Some of us join because we want to. We serve our country because someone has to do it. I am proud of what i do. I really don't appreciate you thrashing a service that has served its country like any other service. Go pick on the stock market or some other country and stop judging what you think is the military.
Posted by A NG Soldier at May 13, 2004 08:20 PM
IF You want to know who the real heros are ask Russ and Dee Fine to send you a copy of the letter I sent them on the 14th of May.You can reach them at russndee.net Most of us in the Guard don't think of ourselves as Heros, atleast that's my opnion of the matter. Some of the questions asked where kinda strange.If I had a choose,Would I rather get a metal or go home? If I had a choose, and I do by the way,I'd rather be here.If it means that my kids can grow up in a better world then I'll stay as long as it takes.I do believe that Mr.Rooney's heart was in the right place.He just wanted to do something and this is it.He may or may not be right but atleast he's not setting back and doing nothing A Hero means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.He never said what he thought a hero was,and I'd like to hear his thoughts on that.He seems to think he knows what they aren't.My frends and family are my Heros.
Posted by PFC.Rush at May 14, 2004 11:41 AM
This piece of tripe by Andy Rooney prompted me fisk him at:
http://www.coloradopsycho.com/Editorials_2004.htm
(dated 12 April 2004)
Reality check: I can trust my life to a dedicated Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine who goes off to war to do his duty, fight for his country, defend freedom, etc. However, if anyone goes with the specific intention of harvesting medals (like John Kerry) or acting like John Rambo, I immediately become suspicious and will put as much distance between myself and him as possible. Such people are a menace to everyone around them as well as to themselves.
It never ceases to amaze me how often faulty intelligence is blamed for bad decisions. At any given moment, we have staggering amounts of information streaming into our government agencies that deal with intelligence, and experts far more knowledgeable than myself examining and analyzing this mountain of data. Whatever scenario you can think of has probably been considered multiple times. Many things can get in the way of sound decision-making: insufficient or outdated information, mistaken assumptions, leaks and compromises, procrastination, political manipulations, or the enemy's own intelligence-gathering activities. Even if we had genuine clairvoyants advising our leaders, they wouldn't get very far if they took an unpopular stand (remember the fate of Cassandra).
Posted by Bloodthirsty Warmonger at June 14, 2004 05:31 AM
Obviously someone doesn't know what us young adults go through to be a soldier, an airman, a private...so on! We go through 6+ weeks of brain washing to serve United States Citizens and ungreatful people like you! Some of the people that go through that training haven't even been away from their families before in their lives! Not everyone that joins goes through this hell for money! Some go to save their lives before they get in trouble with drugs or gangs, others for family tradition, others to protect their country, to travel, and many other reasons! Yes some do go for the money, GI bills, housing assistance and so on. Either way they are fighting for you! No matter what the reason for them to be in the military, no matter what position they hold...they are serving to keep this country safe! So when you decide to sit infront of your computer screen to say something about those soldiers over in Iraq, think about who they are protecting and why they are there.
I can tell you one thing! I joined to follow in my grandfather's footsteps. And it does not please me to know that one day I could be sent over to Iraq...or serve in another war to protect someone that isn't grateful and announces their ungratefulness over the internet!
Amn
Posted by J.O at July 22, 2004 08:03 PM
Hide Comments |
Show/Add Comments in Popup Window(41) | (
Note: You must refresh main page to view newly posted comments here)
