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"Today's Western society has revealed the inequality between the freedom for good deeds and the freedom for evil deeds. A statesman who wants to achieve something highly constructive for his country has to move cautiously and even timidly; thousands of hasty (and irresponsible) critics cling to him at all times; he is constantly rebuffed by parliament and the press. He has to prove his every step is well founded and absolutely flawless. Indeed, an outstanding, truly great person who has unusual and unexpected initiatives in mind does not get any chance to assert himself; dozens of traps will be set for him from the beginning. Thus mediocrity triumphs under the guise of democratic restraints."
---Solzhenitsyn
Here's an old post I stole from ScrappleFace. The pundit was referring to the above Solzhenitsyn excerpt:
"It was impossible for a leader like dubya to emerge back then... people were smarter then!
Another Dubya joke! Prepare to be offended and reflexively bash me as anti-american!
What is the difference between George W Bush and Hitler? Its not that they both insist on invading countries, its not that they both bash pacifists for weakening the country, its not that they both degraded civil rights, its not that they both got their countries closer to 1984.
Its that Hitler actually got a majority of the votes.
And the whole freedom fries thing... I think thats stupid. Oh well I might as well be PC (Patriotically Correct) and commence freedom kissing my girlfriend....
Posted by: Angry_Liberal on March 12, 2003 10:41 PM
Anyhow, I thought the joke was actually funny, but only because it pointed out something the author did not intend: Having the majority on your side does not make you right! (See last Iraqi elections for another example). So seeing this boob hoist himself on his own pittard caused a low wattage light bulb to turn on in my head, and I posted this:
Has anybody noticed that in this go-round satire is used by the conservative side, while feeble jokes and slogans (see Angry above or the equally compelling "Buck Fush" - that's convincing!) seem to be the main heavy artillery of the more pompous liberal establishment. (Political satire, Mr Angry, requires a target that in a way invites the attack due to the ridiculous nature of their position. This is why your side can't use it in this current situation. This might be the real reason you are Angry. Note "Bush is a big fat dummy" is not satire) How the brightest of the left must wince in pain when seeing clearly the truth between the lines of every "news" story here. Keep going Scott, you're in what we in my business call a target rich environment. Keep the faith people!
Posted by: Greyhawk on March 13, 2003 06:15 AM
Then I requested this:
And PS - does anyone know a liberal satire current events site? (The Onion doesn't count) As a bonus it could also be funny, but I think I'm asking for too much. Really, if anyone knows of one they can post it and we can go see how the other half thinks. Anybody? Hello? Please? I promise I'll come back...
Posted by: Greyhawk on March 13, 2003 06:25 AM
The resulting lack of answers led to Greyhawk's Theory, which is serious.
But I submit the precursor to Greyhawk's Theory is Greyhawk's statement on satire in political debate. The side that can use satire is close to the truth. A side whose attempts at satire inevitably backfire probably needs to re-examine their motives.
Greyhawk's Theory on Satire Backfire? Hmmmmm....
"The liberal view in the liberal vs. conservative debate can not survive the immediate "printed" media that is today's web."
--Greyhawk's Theory
Nonetheless, the liberals will not go away.
--The Terwilliger corollary
And maybe I'm stupid, but here, reposted is Greyhawk's Theory in it's original form:
Sunday, March 16, 2003
Posted 4:05 AM by grey
Just got back from Scrapple Face where I posted a request for anyone to provide a comparable site with a liberal point of view. Got some responses that included near misses, (hamster.com) and some tongue-in-cheek (Usama.com), but no real leads. The comment section on Scrapple Face, primarily a one-man news satire site, is quickly becoming the great public forum of our day. But it's predominately conservative in nature. No surprise then, that the few attempts by liberal posters to make any points there are rather quickly exposed for what they are - feeble and poorly thought out, or mere repetitions of catch phrases and slogans. The ease with which these would-be pundits are dispatched with simple fact and logic is astounding. This was the motivating factor for my request: could I successfully run circles around them on their own forum? Imagine then my disappointment; there is no such forum!
Which lead me to this thought: The liberal view in the liberal vs. conservative debate can not survive the immediate "printed" media that is today's web.
Think about it. In Nazi Germany Hitler could address the masses without fear of another opinion. In communist nations of the later 20th century (and in American universities to this day) a few stooges in the rent-a-crowd to lead the cheers at the appropriate moments ensured minimum dissent from the hive-mind. In American TV debate a moron can chant catchy slogans (It's the economy, stupid! Where was George? If it don't fit, you must acquit!) and be declared "witty" by the media. And what about that media? Can you imagine CNN with a comment section like Scrapple Face? Why can't they have one?
Simple. Once a liberal puts feeble arguments in writing in a place where feedback can be delivered immediately and read by the same people reading the original argument then their comments can be exposed for the thoughtless drivel and nonsense that they are. When all parties can review and reflect (and re-read for accuracy) both sides of an argument, the logical, reasoned, and moral side will generally win the day. In 21st century American politics, that side is invariably the conservative side.
So since there's no liberal equal to scrapple face, how about the more "traditional" news sites? Let USA Today put a "Comments" tag on their next protest march coverage (always complete with lots of photos of those "witty" signs; "Buck Fush" seems to be the most compelling anti-war statement of this generation.) Let CNN post a "comment" link with their next story about a poll telling me what the majority of Americans are thinking. C'mon Fox News, you guys are unbiased, right? Try it! I know we won't get the die-hards to change their minds, but maybe we can stop the brainwashing of the young. Let's all celebrate true diversity on the World Wide Web.
Til then, see y'all on Scrapple Face!
Click here and scroll about half way down for my original requests, continue down for responses
Click here scroll about halfway down for my (and others) debate with "The Frenchman"
This link includes my debate with "Frogwatch" - my favorite
- Greyhawk
I've seen some 'right wing hate speech' here and there on the web lately, and here's why I think it's mostly bogus.
It's been my good fortune to have lived all over the world, to have known people from all walks of life. I've never personally met a raving lunatic bent on killing everyone different then they are. I know they do exist, but I believe the only place they exist in great quantity is within the media.
So I think a lot of left wing individuals, convinced by the media of the widespread existence of these right wing wackos, are driven to respond in hate and fear. One of their responses is to try and satirize these people by pretending to be them in online posts. Are you following me?
So this in turn helps prove Greyhawks Theory (see below) in that the 'satire' fails because it's of something that really hardly exists at all today. And most adults know this.
In other words I suspect "Straw Man Satire" runs rampant on the web.
And if I'm naive, it's the kind of naivete that comes from having lived all around the world.
Keep smilin', people!
People always ask me why I don't have scientific poll results in the Mudville Gazette. There were a lot of reasons not to have one, but now I'll ignore them all.
Chicago (IP) A newly released poll shows that Americans continue to be divided in opinion on the current war. When asked whether they support the troops or the war effort, Americans responded as follows:
1. I support the troops and the war: 91%
2. I support the troops, not the war: 6%
3. I'm against the war and the troops: 2%
4. I support the war but I'm against the troops: 1%
Although 2 and 4 were selected by 7% of the population, none could support their ridiculous positions.
"John Smith" posted a quick blurb about the President failing diplomacy..blah blah, you've heard it all. Here's my two eurocents:
When you go to bed tonight, think that somewhere there's a US Soldier sleeping in a cot in a tent, probably on top of a sleeping bag with a sprinkling of sand for extra comfort...maybe he has a picture of the wife or kids, or if he's really young, mom and dad.
He may have joined for education, or to get out of Dodge, or to see the world, or family tradition, maybe even for patriotism, maybe even because of what he saw on TV on 911!
Can you grasp this? I'm talking about a real person, and he's suffering gladly now to protect you so please take a minute of your life to learn something important about him:
He has the real possibility of dying tomorrow.
He may have to kill someone tomorrow. It won't be like on TV, that person will be real dead.
It may be a long painful death, John.
A lot of Moms on both sides may already have hugged their kid for the last time, John.
The human cost of the next few days may be astounding. To know the whole reality is more then you or I or anyone could bear.
People will die.
It could have been avoided.
I will keep this simple for now:
A united world could have, just maybe, brought down Saddam without firing a shot.
We will never know.
Americans who exercised their God-given right (by virtue of American Birth, and defended by the American GI) to protest helped ensure that unified front would never form.
Strangely enough, that right is what the soldier will fight for. Will kill for, may die for.
Will he hate you for it, John? Does it matter to you John?
What about his mom, John? Think it's funny? Are you thinking up funny things you can post in denial right now John?
Your denial doesn't matter John.
I don't know how any one else might feel about you John. It would be the height of arrogance for me to claim I did.
But now multiply that guy by 300,000..
Here's how I feel John. I can not comprehend, nor will I ever til the day I die, how someone could be so vile as to force the onset of war just because they think they might have a better shot at getting one of their fellow dirt bags elected President in two years, John.
You have blood on your hands, you little pathetic cretin. You are beneath contempt. Your priorities are so twisted there may be no hope for restoral.
Now blame George Bush, you transparent little moron. Guess what, John? I posted yesterday that you would do it. I posted D'ash'holes comments before he made them, John. Look around the previous posts and you'll find them. You people are predictable John.
Obstruct, then blame the victim for lack of progress.
This time, John, your victim is not just George Bush. It is the US military and the people of America and Iraq. (Do you think you can trick the Iraqi's into loving you John? They hate Saddam Hussein you know? They saw you on TV, too John.)
Their blood is on your hands, John.
You may have sown the wind John.
Good night John, sleep tight.
Posted by: greyhawk on March 18, 2003 09:53 AM
Okay, after taking all the abuse below I'll think up something funny and as soon as it happens I'll post! Promise!
There I was, minding my own business hanging out on ScrappleFace and speaking out for Truth, Justice, and the American Way, when suddenly:
This site shows that Americans don't deserve the gift of freedom of expression.
Posted by: hangingchad on March 22, 2003 08:55 AM
Hanging chad
If you think any of your freedoms were "gifts" then you, unlike the vast majority of us on this site, must have never done anything to earn them!!
You, Chad, are exposed!!
!!!!Shockanaw!!!!
Posted by: Greyhawk on March 22, 2003 09:49 AM
I'm serious. The rest of the world deserves it. Americans don't. Especially if this is the result. Shocknaw. It is a gift to you. If you don't realise that is very sad for you. You don't earn it by tuning in to Fox News.
Hollywood is another precise reason why Americans don't deserve free speech.
Posted by: Hanging Chad on March 22, 2003 07:44 PM
Hanging Chad
Here's a joke you can tell your friends at the next KKK/Aryan Brotherhood rally:
You: Knock knock
Them: Who's there?
You: !!!SHOCKANAW!!!
Get it? Get it?
Of course you don't, because you are the joke!
And everyone here is laughing at you...
!!!SHOCKANAW!!!
Posted by: greyhawk on March 23, 2003 03:24 AM
I just had myself a great laugh at the mudvillegazette blog. Thanks. If I really needed any convincing that I shouldn't bother, I really have it now. I just don't know who to feel sorrier for - the author, or the poor gimps who think it's worth responding to. Well, must rush off to my KKK AGM.
Posted by: Hanging Chad on March 23, 2003 07:58 PM
Wow, thanks Chad, from you that's high praise. I judge myself by the enemies I make, too. Welcome aboard.
" I just don't know who to feel sorrier for - the author, or the poor gimps who think it's worth responding to."
Thanks again for responding, Gimp. (Your word, not mine.)
Posted by: Greyhawk on March 24, 2003 05:09 AM
Back to now (sigh - just like Charlie Brown) all the hate is starting to bring the old Hawk down.
Kidding - jeesh this was another guy that was apparently not "for" anything, just anti-American. Lots of other banter between him and the good people on ScrappleFace too, just couldn't cut and paste it 'cause I don't steal the witty things others say!
Have had a lengthy on-line debate about war, protest, etc. with someone claiming to be a Canadian socialist. Individual made the usual bigotted (Iraqis can't govern themselves) lies (500,000 refugees from the war so far) that got me searching through his previous posts I had til now unfortunately ignored. Turns out he was a Nazi! Pretty chilling stuff he wrote, and though I should have walked away I couldn't resist flaming him. This guy really was disturbing, to say the least. If anyone wants to see it, it's all near the bottom of comments on ScrappleFaces original "Axis of Weasels" story. But I'm telling you, this guy is chilling..
And since I'm proud of some of the enemies I've made in this world, here's one of his quotes:
Greyhawk:
"...Oh and just to let you know: Me and my kind have succeded already in Europe and Canada - and with people like you around, I doubt there is much hope for the US to follow suit."
-'Sputnikx' - Nazi or socialist, depending on the moment
Sputnikx:
-- ...And with people like me around, you're right! Thanks!!
Greyhawk ; )
Ooglay's War: Part II
OKAY, These next things are not from first day of war, they come later. But is still diary things.
21 Mar:
Here is a great outrage that by the prophet can not be allowed!! I am Ooglay son of Saddam long may he reign and never to be replaced by Uday! Most exalted Uday may your cane be ever straight! I am seeing on CNN Europe in my under-Palace that U.S. Marine Corps has raised that needing-burning U.S. Flag over Umm Qasr, the birthplace home of my beloved mother 16th wife of Saddam and whos dowry was 300 camels!
Now outrages this too far exceed my anger and my hate is burning til my fingers clench and hardly can i think toi talk your language on my keyboard!!
Okay, so I am calming some. Now here is what I am saying to you my American allies or anyone who so often here say you are anti-war: I, Ooglay Hussein will be giving to the first of you who can go to Umm Qasr Marine Corps base, rip down that filthy flag and burn it, the princely sum of 3,000,000 dinar!!!!
Now also you who are parading and fighting in your filthy crime ridden American streets have gladdened my soul. On behalf of my father who will live to ancient years and will in his grand benevelance gladly give all promised gifts to your protest leaders as agreed before the war. Do not stop now.
(And now this part is the proivate messaging to my cousin Shaheed: I am seeing you in the rioting picture from San Francisco! We are proud and happy for no one had heard of you since Canada. Do not be stopping now, you are turning the evil satans against each other and you make my father's only smile!)
Posted by: Ooglay Hussein on March 21, 2003 05:06 AM
Ahh my "ally" Frenchman, here I Ooglay am drinking now heavily for reasons of my own and will soon be finished for tonight. But my educating is needed for those of American schoolings. Listen here is the reason why Georgebush is the world joke butt okay?
I am inventing good jokes all the time in the palace and so I went to tell my glorious father for whom i will gladly make of myself a baricade before your paper tanks a new joking i had thought. I saw his office door being not shut allways so that means i can enter? right? so i approached the prescence of he for whom the sun provides warmth and he was on the phone at his desk but i stood proudly before him and he is talking to chiraq and this is always making him angry and he is saying when jacques will your foul foreign legion arrive? Don't jerk me Jacques! And okay i think he needs a laugh.
"Glorious Father for whom i would gladly ride a MOAB from the plane to the ground,here is a riddle for your laughing!!"
And he looked at me with those kill-you-slowly eyes he used on dans rather but doesn't say a word
and I say "then how many georges bush does it take to screw in a lightbulb?" and he looks now like he looks at the meat grinder people and I say "Oh no please don't say there's more then one!!! Get it?"
And so that is when he struk me very forcefully between my eyes with the phone.
And I am now falling backwards and if not for the will of Allah that our friend Hans Blix was there to catch me I would inded have fallen into the drums of ricin that were nearly filling that half of the room.
So now is why george bush is worlds joke, okay, because a bit later as i come to my senses my glorious father for whom I would run naked with only my sword into your onrushing marines is telling this same joke of mine to Chiraq!!
And that is how it came to be, that the world jokes about bush, i swear on my mothers purity!
But Frenchmen, where is my foriegn legion frenchmen?
Posted by: Ooglay Hussein on March 21, 2003 12:27 PM
And here is my other good joke:
I am designing T-shirt and it shows blown up things like the ancient ziggurat and Esteemed brother Udays palace (may none of his others experience harm) and the museum that Qusays people blew up this morning, okay, and then it says "Okay, shock and awe, shock and awe! We get it already, now go home!" Don't you think it's funny? Okay now keep listening to what i write; I am Ooglay! Well I make a picture of them and make it look like the pope is wearing one and I put them on e-bay for 50,000,000 dinar each an so far i sell 3 million of them in France and San Francisco! This is a wonderful thing but here is where Ooglay is funny joke: we will never make or deliver them!!! Ha!! Now where is your foriegn legion!
Posted by: ooglay on March 21, 2003 12:38 PM
AS THE LEFT STRUGGLES TO SALVAGE SOMETHING from the "ashes of defeat", can you feel some little sympathy for them - timing their little demonstrations for what they thought was the height of the bombing that never came? Naaah, me neither.
So will we see damage comparisons between Baghdad and San Fran? Oh well, gotta expect some losses. (Hey, San Franciscans, I know the majority of you are good and moral people. You have my sympathy.)
Anyhow...
Here's the next spin-job heading down the pike. Are you ready?
"The Iraqi people would have overthrown Saddam years ago if it wasn't for the sanctions"
Do I need to address the obvious? Coming from the Iraqi people (and I surely wish nothing but the best for them now and always) this will sound like a pale attempt for sympathy, or an excuse for not tossing Stalin Jr. 10 years ago.
Coming from elsewhere it will be used to advance agendas and in support of this corollary:
" We owe the Iraqi people _(insert whatever you think we owe them here)__ for the years of suffering we caused them"
Of course, the U.S. will be providing for the Iraqi people for some time, but as always, watch out for the "we" people, know what I mean?
And here's the most insidious corollary, which also will likely be used as a stand-alone:
"Bush decided not to Bomb because of our protests"
Great self-esteem booster for the flower power throw-backs, sure-fire recruiting tool, will look good on the cover of the brochures.)
And here, if it's true, is another one (we'll know soon)
"Bush just got lucky"
There will be variations on the theme, I'm sure, but I'll bet most will sound like these basic lines. I might even keep a scorecard.
Pathetic. But if you find yourself discussing it here or elsewhere, be nice to the poster (they're probably just parroting) politely point out their failed logic, and you might gain a convert. Or at least plant that first kernel of truth.
They're going to come out of the woodwork people, from every persuasion, every imaginable group, every imaginable agenda. "Now we have to...."
But what do you think, does the CinC have a plan?
Seems like it so far...
Ooglay's Greatest Hits
This section contains some of Ooglays snappy one-liners and debates he's lost in comments sections around the blog world.
OOGLAY'S PRAISINGS
Lots of American infidel dogs are beginning to be shocked and awed by Ooglays brain. Here's some things they saying about me!:
Ooglay, you'll be lucky if no one pulls your birnoose down over your head and smacks you on the bottom with a whiffle bat. If you are trying for the ridiculous, you have hit the sublime. You sound like something out of a bad Boris Karloff movie.
Posted by: Joseph on March 20, 2003 09:42 AM
Ooglay-you crack me up.
Posted by: Darth Chef on March 20, 2003 11:40 AM
The troops are singing your praises ooogloid glob, (Which is probably your real name)
I don't know but i've been told, Saddam's son will not grow old!
Am I right or wrong? YOUR RIGHT! Are we going strong.. D*** Right.
1, 2, 3, 4, Get em all! Yaahh !!
Posted by: Phrog Poet on March 20, 2003 07:05 PM
Ooglay:
Your posts make my day. Keep up the good work! I hope you survive the war crimes tribunal and maybe even get a spot in the new regime. And I hope you don't find out firsthand what happens if you try to use chemical weapons in a sandstorm. (Think p***ing in the wind...)
Posted by: Rabid Rabbit on March 25, 2003 08:58 PM
Gotta disagree with you about who's funnier, Tom. This Ooglay Hussein guy is damn funny! I love this guy!
Posted by: Robert on March 25, 2003 04:24 PM
Dearest Bambi:
Is your life partner Oogle Hassen? You both are very funny. Keep up the good work.
Danjo
GO MARINES!
Iraq, near the Kuwaiti border (IP):
American soldiers today captured two Iraqi combatants who were promptly charged with Biological Warfare Crimes.
"They were hurling what appeared to be fecal matter at the approaching Company of US GIs." Said Camp Spokesperson Capt Jeff (Names changed for security purposes) "and on closer examination it turned out to be Camel dung."
When questioned, the two revealed they were Iraqi regular Army members, and only wanted to surrender.
"Hurling Camel Dung with our hands was our only weapon" said one. "since we lost the rubber-band powered dung launcher Saddam gave us."
When quizzed as to why they threw dung at people they wanted to surrender to, the pair explained "We thought they were Republican Guards."
----IP Staff and Wire reports
Yaksun,
I will post any response you care to send to
Greyhawk@europe.com
(Or provide link to your own Blog)
You addressed a post to me on ScrappleFace. I choose to answer here rather then take up space there. I reproduce your post below, and enter my comments.
Again we engage in civil discourse. (To others who may read this: Yaksun and I have "spoken" before.) First a minor rebuke to you sir, for exposing your anger in replies to others who replied to this post. You lost ground. I know, you're a Texan! I respect that. Angry Texans are what make our military great. I mean it.
A second rebuke: you called me by name at the start of your post. But then you made me into a straw man by inventing positions to argue against. I don't think that's what you intended to do, none the less you did. We agree on many fundamental things. We diverge on the details.
Because I respect you ,
I answer you.
Your paragraphs are bold, mine are not.
Yaksun writes:
"I support the US troops and wish for their safety.
"It is my right as a free, thinking citizen to conclude that the Bush administration has not shown evidence justifying the making of war on Iraq at this time, as opposed to, say, North Korea. Every reason he has given has so far paled when exposed to the light of day."
Greyhawk reply:
I will stand with you against any who would deny you your right.
You are right in the NK comparison. Here is what I would say to NK: "Practice falling down, We'll be there in a minute" ; )
We were committed to Iraq first. You know that. You (or anyone) attacking Bush for not switching in mid-stride is unwarranted. I mean really, think that through, okay?
And think back to the "axis" speech.
I pray we "solve" Korea diplomatically.
And I pray the NK "leaders" are not as insane as I fear they are.
The "paled in light of day" is your opinion. You are welcome to it.
"Enforcing the UN resolutions following Gulf War I: Why now? One could argue that 100,000 UN troops on the ground in Iraq would keep the peace just as effectively. Can anyone deny that Saddam has been peaceful AND compliant by the simple presence of hostile troops nearby?"
Hypotheticals. We'll never know what a united world could have achieved. But the UN could not agree on anything, the situation degenerated, and here we are. Status quo was not working. The French were too desperate for oil and trade at any cost. Well-intentioned Americans were led into the streets by Communists (and others) with an agenda. The media distorted the split. Many in America and abroad thought they could manipulate the situation to their personal gain. They miscalculated. The fire is lit.
"Terrorism - 9/11: How many Iraqis flew planes into US targets? There is NO evidence tying Iraq to al quaeda. Apparently, Bin Laden despises Saddam for the degenerate he really is."
Okay, so Bin Laden can help us on this one then...right? But you are correct. Personally I pray for the collective lives of the Iraqi people. Many of them (not all) look to us as their hope for the future. As I stated clearly in previous posts: those who brought this war upon us have blood on their hands. A united world could have ended Saddam's reign of terror. (Please don't give me comparisons to other dictators we've supported in the 70's or haven’t gotten to yet. See my Korea comments above.)
"Freedom for Iraqis: Freedom apparently means constitutional democracy, American style. Well you heard it here first, American style democracy is not a one size fits all concept. It requires, for one thing, a stable economy. It also requires as a corollary, a working class. A person who's main thought for each day is getting food for his kid's belly doesn't give a rat's arse about the nuances between one party and another. And what about the Afghans? Aren't they entitled to freedom, too. Or shall they be relegated to the pages of history like a jilted lover?"
This is not a "liberal attitude" as some have said. It is neither liberal nor conservative. It does, however, sound elitist. The average citizen of the world does indeed consider a day successful when he or she has fed his or her family or self. But Iraq is an oil-rich nation that has been trading with the world uninterrupted for years. Indeed they should have a middle class and a stable economy. Like Qatar, or Kuwait. What then is the difference in Iraq? You and I both know it's not America's fault, and it's not anyone named "Bush" or "Clinton".
Afghanistan: We are still there. We have not abandoning them. If you have forgotten them, I assure you I have not. Who is helping us? We did not destroy that nation - it was rubble before the first bomb fell.
The people who rush to be human shields in Baghdad could have rushed to help "post war" Afghans instead. Still can, now that they've fled (or been kicked out of) Iraq. Why haven't they? Has it never occurred to these world- minded people?
(I deleted a paragraph here. I'll reinsert it and comment if you want but I think on re-reading you may agree. I got the impression you were speaking in anger. Your call, you know where to find me.)
"What troubles me now is that Bush, by default, has found the best reason to galvanize the public in suppert for this adventure - France is opposed to it. Rather than having one clearly identifiable positive reason, he will rely on the public's resentment at feeling betrayed by our "ally" - stabbed in the back as it were. Okay, by God, we'll show them who the No. 1 Superpower is. We don't need anybody!!! Is that really the best reason to go to war with Iraq at this time?"
Greyhawk replies:
I thought about deleting this paragraph for you too. I believe you spoke in haste. You have insulted your fellow Americans here, Yaksun. Let's be realistic, do you really believe any American anywhere is willing to go to war (or send their sons to war) to spite France? The French, in their Gallic pride, may believe that Yaksun. Do you really want to go on the record with this? Again I think you spoke in haste, and I hereby give you the opportunity to recant...
Yaksun concludes
"Now you know a good clean debate is great fun. But you yourself said it best. Somebody's mom, wife or kids are going to be receiving flags when this is over instead of their loved one. And that's just on our side."
"We will win. Saddam will be out, and that's good from a relative standpoint. Maybe we'll even find that reason for being there in the first place. I hope it happens and quickly. Cuz just wait till Al-Jazeera starts rolling that film of all those mutilated, asphyxiated, blistered women and children..."
Greyhawk concludes:
God bless you sir. They may indeed roll that video, then, there will also be video of celebrations, then exposure of war crimes, then accusations and counter accusations, ad infinitum, and more wars will be fought and people will die, and the world will continue to turn.
Yaksun closes:
"Call me still unconvinced. It's my right."
"yaksun"
"Posted by yaksun at March 18, 2003 04:52 PM"
Greyhawk closes:
It's your right as an American Yaksun. And I'll defend it proudly. And I'll say no more.
Host: Hi there callers, megadillos! I'm back for another day of hot political chat! Who? Phil Gonerwho, that's who! First on-air personality for the multi-millionaire funded nation-wide anti-capitalist liberal talk radio network. The Name of my new show is "Buck Fush"
(sound of applause - theme music plays - Elton John's "Sad Songs")
Host: Yes, today we're all as sad as D'ashole because Bush is such a fool that he couldn't unite the world to stop a madman like Saddam Hussein! What a loser! But hey, it's not all bad, every cloud has a silver lining! And we're going to talk about why this war is bad for America, a disaster for the Stock Market, and good for the Democratic party!
(Audience applauds loudly)
Let's start with a call. And folks we've got a conservative listener on line one. Go ahead caller, you're on!
Caller: Phil, the stock market is going up, but you said,,,
Host: Well...isn't that the typical right-wing response? People are going to die in a war and all you care about is your investment portfolio! You rich republicans kill me!
Caller: They'd like to kill you, Phil, but their morals interfere. But I'm not rich. I don't even have enough money to invest Phil, I was just responding to...
Host: You have no money to invest, and you think the Bush tax cut will fix that? Buddy you won't get enough for car repairs...
Caller: I wasn't talking about the Bush tax cut...
Host: Nobody's talking about it now, and that's the way Bush wants it. It's another reason he's going to war, to distract from the failed economy!!!!
(Crowd roar)
We'll be back people, after a word from our sponsors...
Host: Hi there callers, megadillos! I'm Phil Gonerwho, formerly a big-time TV star, now the first host of the new multi-millionaire funded nation-wide anti-capitalist liberal talk radio network. The Name of my new show is "Buck Fush"
(sound of applause)
We are gonna roast those conservatives here, people! The gloves are off now that I'm no longer on that ultra right-wing MSNBC show. Can you believe they fired me, even though with seven viewers I had the highest ratings on the network? We were increasing in ratings every week people, and the man shut me down!
(Booooo, Booooo...)
But I'm back, and the gloves are off! Welcome to "Buck Fush", where we tell it like it is!
(Loud cheers, then the theme music plays, it's "Goodbye Earl" by the Dixie Chicks!")
Host: (as music fades): okay lets start right off by taking a couple calls...hello, Fort Dix New Jersey, you're on "Buck Fush"
Caller: Hey, Megadillos, Phil. About time we had an intelligent talk radio show. Thank the Goddess you're off MSNBC and available to get the word out to the masses!"
Host: Thanks caller! What's on your mind today?
Caller: Hey I think what you're doing is great! But you've got to stop playing Dixie Chicks! I'm a NOW member and they offend women of intelligence everywhere with that "Chicks" thing...
Host: Yes, but they're anti-war and that means we play 'em here on "Buck Fush!" It's all about free speech here, lady. This isn't one of those loud conservative hate monger shows! Call back with a real issue. Next caller. Chicago, you're on "Buck Fush"!
Caller 2: Ahhh yes, hello. This is the Reverend Jack Jesson., and ahh..
Host: Wow! On five minutes and a call from the top! (crowd noise, appreciative ooohs and ahhhs) What's on your mind sir?
Caller 2: That "Dixie" music is highly offensive to..."
Host: Say no more! You'll never hear that hate music on this show again! I knew we could expose those racist fascists for what they were! Megadillos to you sir, what else can we dialogue on?
Caller 2: Well, ahhhh, given the highly volatile and sad state of affairs that is the world today I ahhh... feel that we need to focus our efforts on broad scale issues...ahhh ...issues that affect the community, that seperate people, when they most need to be united together! So yes, I’m off to resolve a little problem with a flag in South Carolina!
(Click...dialtone...brief quiet pause, applause grows to thunderous ovation)
Host: Wow, (applause quiets, like turning down a volume knob) the heavy hitters are lining up to speak on "Buck Fush" - the long awaited radio voice of the liberal left. Okay folks, today's topic is "Bush is a Big Fat Dumb Head". The Phew Institute took a poll of our focus group and found that 95% of them think it would violate the constitution to go to war without UN approval. Still it looks like that moron in the oval office wants to override public opinion, kill Iraqi babies and their mothers, and enrage the terrorists who will fly their planes into our elementary schools and we will deserve it. Bush is a big fat idiot! What do you think callers? Line 2, Berkeley, you're on!
Caller 3: Yea, megadillos, Phil! Love the show, it's the real new age answer to Rush!
Host: Thank you caller. I agree completely, I am great. But let's not compare to Rush! We here at the Excrement in Broadcasting Network do not invite comparisons to anyone! Now what's your take on Bush?
Caller 3: I agree, Phill! Bush is a big fat idiot!
(crowd applause)
Host: Right on, caller, you have defined the issue exactly. Very insightful comment. Now for those of you who thought we wouldn't present an opposing view, here's another caller who's a little "right of center", shall we say...go ahead, South Beach, you're on!
Caller 4: Yea, look man, you guys are hosed dude. I mean, yea, you know, like, Bush, dude he's big and dumb but he's not fat, man. I mean come on....
Crowd Noise: Boooo booooo....
Host: No, no, let's let our man have his say...
Caller 4: Well he is kinda chunky...
Crowd errupts in cheers..
Host: Next caller! Portland Oregon
Caller 5: Yea Phil, megadillos, just wanted to point out that Bush is a big fat idiot and I hate that he's so anti-diversity...
Host: Whooaaa now caller, one topic at a time. Diversity is tomorrow's topic, we'll get there! Now we’ll be right back after this word from Evyan Water...
(theme music swells, it's Bob Dylan's "The Times They are a Changin') ...
Do Liberal's have computers too?
Just got back from Scrapple Face where I posted a request for anyone to provide a comparable site with a liberal point of view. Got some responses that included near misses, (hamster.com) and some tongue-in-cheek (Usama.com), but no real leads. The comment section on Scrapple Face, primarily a one-man news satire site, is quickly becoming the great public forum of our day. But it’s predominately conservative in nature. No surprise then, that the few attempts by liberal posters to make any points there are rather quickly exposed for what they are - feeble and poorly thought out, or mere repetitions of catch phrases and slogans. The ease with which these would-be pundits are dispatched with simple fact and logic is astounding. This was the motivating factor for my request: could I successfully run circles around them on their own forum? Imagine then my disappointment; there is no such forum!
Which lead me to this thought: The liberal view in the liberal vs. conservative debate can not survive the immediate "printed" media that is today's web.
Think about it. In Nazi Germany Hitler could address the masses without fear of another opinion. In communist nations of the later 20th century (and in American universities to this day) a few stooges in the rent-a-crowd to lead the cheers at the appropriate moments ensured minimum dissent from the hive-mind. In American TV debate a moron can chant catchy slogans (It's the economy, stupid! Where was George? If it don't fit, you must acquit!) and be declared "witty" by the media. And what about that media? Can you imagine CNN with a comment section like Scrapple Face? Why can't they have one?
Simple. Once a liberal puts feeble arguments in writing in a place where feedback can be delivered immediately and read by the same people reading the original argument then their comments can be exposed for the thoughtless drivel and nonsense that they are. When all parties can review and reflect (and re-read for accuracy) both sides of an argument, the logical, reasoned, and moral side will generally win the day. In 21st century American politics, that side is invariably the conservative side.
So since there’s no liberal equal to scrapple face, how about the more “traditional” news sites? Let USA Today put a "Comments" tag on their next protest march coverage (always complete with lots of photos of those "witty" signs; "Buck Fush" seems to be the most compelling anti-war statement of this generation.) Let CNN post a “comment” link with their next story about a poll telling me what the majority of Americans are thinking. C’mon Fox News, you guys are unbiased, right? Try it! I know we won’t get the die-hards to change their minds, but maybe we can stop the brainwashing of the young. Let’s all celebrate true diversity on the World Wide Web.
Til then, see y’all on Scrapple Face!
http://www.scrappleface.com/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=750
scroll about half way down for my original requests, continue down for responses
http://www.scrappleface.com/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=753
scroll about halfway down for my (and others) debate with “The Frenchman”
http://www.scrappleface.com/cgi-bin/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=745
includes my debate with “Frogwatch” – my favorite
- Greyhawk
Greetings fellow travelers...
You have arrived at the weblog of an American GI, who is currently stationed overseas (not on sandy soil at this time.. in fact you can visit my backyard just a few posts down) with his wife and family and a big dumb dog who also has a smaller dog all his own.
The color choice for this site is meant to evoke the red, blue, white, and grey colors of battle flags from both sides of the American Civil War. The one from the 1860's. Perhaps the last one we'll ever have. The logo at the top is a reminder not to take myself too seriously.
Folks who've been visiting here a while will recognize my ongoing series Democracy, Whiskey, Sexy. I posted the first installment of this project back in May, and have added bits and pieces throught he summer. It's finished now, and I'll be posting the chapters one at a time over the next day or so, adding each one to the post below. I just added another. Ultimately then the finished product in its entirety will be posted there. Thanks to all who've been following the tale.
I've also recently reposted (below) an earlier piece called Sacred Words that I feel is appropriate for the anniversary of 911. Those who wonder where my paypal link is (don't need one - not wealthy, but I'm okay) will find alternatives in that post. Make a donation to the fallen heroes fund or some of the other fine charities I've linked there benefitting the survivors of the fallen from the war on terror.
And for those who haven't read the post about Rick Rescorla, I hereby invite you to meet a rare man, a hero by the standards of any age. Please be sure to sign the on line petition to get this man a small fraction of the honors he deserves.
And if you want something light, try Ooglay Hussein's Diaries from the archives list in the right hand column.
Hope you enjoy your visit.
