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Greetings! You are reading an article from The Mudville Gazette. To reach the front page, with all the latest news and views, click the logo above or "main" below. Thanks for stopping by!
« Surrender, he whispered | Main | War and progress »

November 23, 2009

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War costs money (2)

By Greyhawk

Last week:
Kabul--U.S. President Barack Obama aims to bring the Afghan war to an end before he leaves office, he said on Wednesday.
<...>
"The American people will have a lot of clarity about what we're doing, how we're going to succeed, how much this thing is going to cost, what kind of burden does this place on our young men and women in uniform and, most importantly, what's the end game on this thing," he said.
Along with leaks from others, remarks by the president that are "open to interpretation" have been the hallmark of the administration's cloudy national security 'policy'. So clarity would certainly be a welcome change, too.

We just used that quote in another post, but here's an example about how many agendas a vague statement can serve.

The LA Times has picked up the "how much this thing is going to cost" angle and reported back: "Pricing an Afghanistan troop buildup is no simple calculation".

But don't worry - Democrats Propose Surtax to Cover War Costs.

But still don't worry -

Discussing the idea earlier this month, Murtha said he knew the bill would not be enacted and that advocates of a surtax were simply trying to send a message about the moral obligation to pay for the wars.
You see, Murtha & company are really only concerned for the troops:
"The only people who've paid any price for our military involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan are our military families," Murtha, Obey and Larson said in a joint statement. "We believe that if this war is to be fought, it's only fair that everyone share the burden."

And there's that "what kind of burden does this place on our young men and women in uniform" part of the president's statement, too.

Now, it's too hard to figure out in advance what the war might cost - even Jack Murtha (who's certainly brought home more money off the war on terror than any other congressman) can't figure it out - so the amount of the new tax that Murtha says he knows won't be enacted to cover the cost that can't be calculated will only be determined after the money is spent. And Obey says everyone will give their fair share: "the tax should be paid by all taxpayers, with rates ranging from 1 percent for lower wage earners to 5 percent for the wealthy."

And if LA Times reporters and congressmen can't calculate how many bazillion dollars X infinity the war will cost, then certainly the average American can't do all the hard maths required to figure it out either. And really, after all, the only thing Americans need to understand is that they could get a lot of free stuff from the government if it wasn't for the war that's killing our children.

"There ain't going to be no money for nothing if we pour it all into Afghanistan," House Appropriations Chairman David Obey told ABC News in an exclusive interview.
For example, health care, which would cost exactly as much as the war:

"For the last year, as we've struggled to pass health care reform, we've been told that we have to pay for the bill -- and the cost over the next decade will be about a trillion dollars," the three lawmakers said in a joint statement. "Now the president is being asked to consider an enlarged counterinsurgency effort in Afghanistan, which proponents tell us will take at least a decade and would also cost about a trillion dollars."

So the answer to the question "how much will the war in Afghanistan cost" is officially "nobody knows - but it's exactly as much as free health care for all Americans."

*****

From our History is Fun department: after Democrats took control of Congress in 2006, Obey earmarked his share of the warbucks in the first defense budget developed under his Party's control for his home district's dairy farmers:

House Appropriations Committee Chairman David Obey, D-Wis., isn't waiting on the upcoming farm bill to extend income subsidies aimed at small dairy farms. Obey's 13-month extension would cost $283 million.

But at the time, Obey was caught on camera berating a military mom who used his support for war funding to question the intensity of his anti-Iraq war stance.

"We're trying to use the supplemental to end the war," said Obey, chairman of the Appropriations Committee and sponsor of the legislation that would end any combat role for U.S. troops by Aug. 31, 2008. "You can't end the war if you're going against the supplemental. It's time these idiot liberals understood that!"

As another protester joined Richards, Obey continued: "That bill ends the war! If that isn't good enough for you, you're smoking something illegal. You've got your facts screwed up. We can't get the votes! Do you see a magic wand in my pocket? We don't have the votes for it. We do have the votes if you guys quit screwing it up. We do have the votes to end the legal authority for the war, that's the same as de-funding it."

In the video Obey also claimed responsibility for ending funding for the war in Vietnam.

PP: (who had been standing back, listening, now approaches TR and DO).. What about the Church amendment that helped end the Vietnam war back in '72, '73?

DO: (Emphatically, voice raised) It took us 31 different efforts to get there, I was here for that.

PP: ok. (started to say something... PP and DO start talking over each other)

DO: I know what the hell I'm talking about.

PP: Did that end the ground war in Vietnam?

DO: No it didn't. The political pressure on the administration ended the war.
The amendment that finally ended the funding was the [undecipherable] amendment, I was the sponsor of that amendment...

But he later said he was sorry for yelling at the mother of a Marine suffering from PTSD.

Ancient history, all that. But now that the US economy is markedly worse than it was when he first took control of the purse in 2007 the Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee might feel his task is simplified - especially since he, like his colleague Jack Murtha, supports the troops.

And maybe this time those "idiot liberals" will keep their mouths shut.

*****

And for those who might be a little slow on the uptake, here's a friendly little warning message from history - sent directly to the Obama administration (and any other "idiot liberals" out there) from Jack Murtha's web page:

"As presidential historian Robert Dallek reminds us, 'war kills off great reform movements'," the Members said, noting that World War I ended the Progressive Era, Korea ended Harry Truman's Fair Deal and Vietnam ended Lyndon Johnson's Great Society.

Previously: War costs money.



Posted by Greyhawk / November 23, 2009 1:33 PM | Permalink

2 Comments

They speak as if "the war" is some kind of discrete, elective program that can be cut off or pursued, at our whim. It's actually an effort to protect and secure America's vital interests abroad, something most sane people view as an essential mission.

You'd be sacrificing vital national security interests for huge domestic programs. That's fine, if that's their decision, but it also means America is left unguarded as we busily implement the nanny state.

National defense is something the government is supposed to do, as declared in the Constitution. It's the first order of business. The broad, intrusive, and confiscatory domestic agenda currently being pursued is unconstitutional. It overturns the basic relationship between the citizen and the state.

It means personal decisions are rightly of governmental interest as most of them have some effect on healthcare costs. On top of that, the regulatory and growth-retarding cap and trade bill will further straitjacket the economy. This much governmental control of the private sphere is historically unprecedented in this country,

Yet, they fail to realize that without national security, we won't have the luxury to muse about domestic spending. If you don't ensure the country's security and safety, no domestic reform agenda will matter.

Stuff I wonder:

How much pork is included in the "cost"? Is Cash for Clunkers part of the calculation? It was part of the Defense Supplemental. How about Murtha's airport?

How much of the "cost" is spent in contracts that provide American jobs? New improved MRAPS, etc. Broader point: how much of the "cost" consists of money circulating back into the American economy in the form of wages, etc.

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November 26, 2010


America@war
[Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit.

That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary.

From their about page:

The Naval Institute shall remain

INDEPENDENT - A non-profit member association, with no government support, that does not lobby for special interests;

NON-PARTISAN - An independent, professional military association with a mission, goals and objectives that transcend political affiliations; and shall encourage

IDEAS - Through its respected journals Proceedings and Naval History, its conferences, its books and its online content, in support of those who serve.

"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation:

The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism.

Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented.

I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are.

"Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result.

Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web...

And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed.

The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down.

*****

But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:

Closing Blogs is nothing new. So many site's owners just give up on their own. They come and go, you know, these MilBloggers do. Like any other sort of blogger. Many post in the lonely down hours far from home, spill their guts for the world, then abandon their spots when the tour of duty is up. They have lives again somewhere in the world, and no need to share the details. So it goes.

Many are truly gone - no site left at all. "The page cannot be found." Other blogs remain, like abandoned defensive positions in shifting desert sands.

Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down.

If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real.

And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale.

We've already made history, it's time to save it.

(More to follow...)




Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) |

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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
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  • Greyhawk: Stuff I wonder: How much pork is included in the read more
  • jordan: They speak as if "the war" is some kind of read more

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The Mudville Gazette is written and produced by Greyhawk, who recently retired from 24 years of active duty in the US military, but will maintain this disclaimer: Unless otherwise credited, the opinions expressed are those of the author, and nothing here is to be taken as representing the official position of or endorsement by the United States Department of Defense or any of its subordinate components.

Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house.

I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email.

Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed.

Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com

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*****

Tending Distant
Fires


Far from hearth and home, watching
Cold alone but not alone
On distant shore and only wanting
Safe return and little more

What tales we'll tell
When that time comes
When tales can be told

When things grim
Seem far away
When other fires go cold

Some distant sunset, vision fading
Memories remain
And tired eyes gaze 'pon folded flags
While distant drums beat their refrain

Saluting fallen friends whose names
And youth will never fade
Here's to those on other shores,
for them live well, the price is paid

- Greyhawk,
Baghdad,
December 2004