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 Greetings! You are reading an article from The Mudville Gazette. To reach the front page, with all the latest news and views, click the logo above or "main" below. Thanks for stopping by! July 9, 2009 They walk among usBy Greyhawk
Over my career I served with thousands of young Americans. Some were into Star Wars. Some were talented singers, or had a knack for drawing. Others were skilled carpenters or mechanics. I have no doubt some were gay. Michael Jackson fans? We had 'em. Led Zeppelin, Johnny Cash and Green Day fans, too. I've worked with, for, and over Christians, atheists, Muslims, Wiccans, Buddhists, Jews - brown yellow, white, "all of the above" - northern, southern, city, country, American, foreign... Some were alcoholics. A few were busted for drugs. (One declared he would never use the stuff - he just supplied it to others...) Every base/post newspaper has an at least once a week "blotter" section that lists the names of the small (but unacceptable!) percentage of the population busted for one infraction or another (many unique to the military, others not) that week, along side stories of those getting medals and other recognition for achievement, courage, or a job well done. The vast majority never made the paper at all. Some had blogs (I swear, it's true!) Some uploaded pictures of themselves to "Hot or Not". Others had pictures of themselves crawling drunk in the streets on their MySpace page. I know the last two for certain because they proudly showed me. (Bad judgement, says I - but at least they weren't in uniform, though I've heard of others who were...) I don't know if I ever met any Nazis or not.
I hate Nazis - Illinois or otherwise. There's an almost overlooked but interesting datapoint on military suicide in the story, too:
I suspect responses to the "Clark" story would reveal many people's real thoughts on the military suicide issue. For example, the Stars and Stripes story didn't even mention what level of disability rating he might receive, or what access to veterans' health care he might have for the rest of his life. It's almost as if they aren't the least bit concerned. Update: Nazi - it's the new gay! A comment from Boing Boing's coverage of this story:
I met many folks over the course of my career who may or may not have been gay. But I knew one guy who coincident with getting orders to Korea (back in the "pre-war" days when many - gay or straight - saw that as the worst thing that could happen to you) decided to "come out", even though it meant certain discharge from the military. That process took months, of course. During which 1) he continued in his job, was very effective, and was well treated, and 2) no replacement could be named for his Korea assignment (it couldn't "officially" be canceled until the inevitable conclusion was actually reached; ultimately someone else got a very short notice assignment.) Anyhow, imagine a future where gays are allowed to serve openly. I'm all for that, but I suspect "Nazi" (more likely "racist") would indeed become a fall back for someone wanting out of the military. Under those circumstances you might see a sudden rise in self-identified racists in the ranks. (Oddly enough, many are using a fraudulent "gays bad/Nazis okay" angle on this story in an attempt shame someone - right target: congress, wrong target: the military - into acting on the gays in the military issue.) As for the issue of authentic militant racists in the military - I know they're there, I'm against 'em, and I won't discriminate based on the color of their skin. The question becomes (and I'm not aware of any answer provided by the SPLC) what to do? "Kick them out" certainly ends the problem from the military POV (until those suicide stories start and the "victim's" racist status is conveniently forgotten) but most of these folks don't sport "racist" tattoos on their foreheads or exhibit any other outward signs of membership in unacceptable groups. This also harkens back to the DHS Report on right-wing threats, a document many labeled as "prescient" for citing an obvious problem for which no one proposed any answers. (My thoughts on that here - having made them clear I've got zero tolerance for those who might accuse me of holding any certain position that I do not.) But Congress is about to clear the table for a presentation regarding "dozens" of people on a web site who claim membership in the U.S. military - one of whom has actually been confirmed (and who is on the way out). This undeniably represents the tip of an iceberg of unknown size - and congressional attention indicates a significant problem. I'd rather they acted to give back the money they just stole from the pockets of military members, but I don't set the agenda. But given the impact of that congressional solution ("protection") I'm concerned with any other future "protections" congress might determine we require. So if anyone has any real solutions, feel free to provide. Elsewhere - Other milbloggers: My buddy Grim, just back from Iraq, points out the proper path to a solution. Non-military: Gawker? Raw Story? (Gosh guys - I didn't know you cared... sniffle...): "It's all about teh gayz!" Reason: it's about the gays. Think Progress: It's all about Iraq, and Chimpy ignored the problem. (Oh, and by the way, gays should be allowed to serve openly.) Crooks and Liars tags: Greta Van Susteren, Michael Savage, Military, neo-Nazis, Obama, poplawski, stripes, tiller - 'nuff said? More: In searching for a report on what action congress took today, all I find is this AP story:
"Sent a letter"? Is that what "On Friday, the SPLC will present its findings to key members of Congress" (from the original story) actually means? If so, I was mistaken in stating "Congress will clear the table for a presentation..." above. Still more: Yep - this entire story is based on a press release regarding a letter sent to four members of congress announcing the discovery of 40 "whites only" chat room participants who claim to be military. (This in no way invalidates any good discussion begun on issues raised, but does serve as a reminder that "news" must always be read with extreme caution, sucker.) Recap: 1. SPLC issues press release about letter sent to congress regarding claims by white-only chat room participants. 2. Stars and Stripes investigates, finds a suicidal racist about to be discharged from Navy. 3. Milbloggers take the report seriously. (Suckers all, we are.) 4. Other courageous bloggers hint that the military ban on gays should be lifted, the Iraq war was a mistake, the DHS report was "prescient", and Greta van Susteren is a threat to America who must be silenced. So far, no comment from congress. And ACTION! Here's a great idea - let's ban smokers from the military!!! So to return to my original point ("in this organization of over two hundred people, anything you can think of, from talent to perversion, we've probably got one here somewhere...") - if somewhere in the military there are suicidal gay Nazi smokers who just want to serve their country and watch Greta van Susteren when off duty is that really so wrong? Posted by Greyhawk / July 9, 2009 11:26 PM | Permalink 2 TrackBacksWelcome to the Dawn Patrol, our daily roundup of information on the War on Terror and other topics - from the MilBlogs and various sources around the world. If you're a blogger, you can join the conversation. If you link to any of these stories, add a ... Read More Lieberman: General Keane... Do you think that political correctness may have played some role in the fact that these dots were not connected? The first two words of the general's response were "Yes, absolutely". But there were more, including these:But... Read More 16 CommentsLeave a comment |
November 26, 2010America@war [Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit. That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary. From their about page:
"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation: The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism. Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented. I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are. "Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result. Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web... And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed. The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down. But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:
Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down. If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real. And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale. We've already made history, it's time to save it. (More to follow...) Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink |
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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
 
 
 Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house. I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email. Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed. Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com  Tending Distant Far from hearth and home, watching What tales we'll tell When things grim Some distant sunset, vision fading Saluting fallen friends whose names - Greyhawk, Baghdad, December 2004 |
I doubt many people care about the plight of Nazis whose personal bigotry makes them manifestly unfit for service.
For example, the Stars and Stripes story didn't even mention what level of disability rating he might receive, or what access to veterans' health care he might have for the rest of his life. It's almost as if they aren't the least bit concerned.
Perhaps they aren't concerned because the story isn't about disability ratings or the future of veterans' health care. Perhaps they have written other stories about those issues. We can't tell whether they have from your post. It's almost as if you aren't the least bit concerned.
Quite the moral conundrum, isn't it? If he's tossed out with no access, will he later kill himself and be featured in a story condemning the military for discharging troops for "psychiatric diagnosis" and them turning their backs on them?
The story I foresee won't explain (beyond "psychiatric") the specific nature of his "problem" - just as most stories of military suicide rates don't get into those sorts of details.
In many cases citing "Iraq veteran" status - or even just "veteran" status is as far as any reporter is willing to go by way of explanation. That's nowhere near far enough.
Two thoughts on this:
1. The military historically has been one of the most effective agents for actually changing the minds of individual bigots - far more effective than any laws or do-gooder organizations have ever been. We had a Civil War and much of the eventual reconciliation came from the descendents of that war's enemies serving together in later wars and in peace. More klansmen go into the service than come out.
2. In the other largely regimented institution in our society -our prison system, there are the Mexican Mafia and the Black Muslims in addition to the Skinhead/Aryan organization. Presumably there is at least some similarity in demographics, so if some minority of servicemen are in one group, another minority are in the others. I'd be willing to bet the SPLC isn't nearly as interested in these other groups. If they are truly concerned about domestic terrorism they should be. If this is just a setup to raise money they won't be.
"More klansmen go into the service than come out." Amen, brother.
"If this is just a setup to raise money..." oh perish the thought. ;)
I really must call BS on the sailor who declares himself nuts because he has to serve with people who have a different skin tone. I enlisted in 1964 and even back then I knew the military was integrated. I knew it before I raised my hand and swore the oath, taking that one step forward. Right up until then I could have turned around and left, of course the draft would have caught up with me unless I figured out some clever excuse.
My point is, even I, at that age being dumber than a pile of hammers, knew the Services were made up of everybody. We went into boot camp black, white, brown, etc. We came out green.
A couple years later the black guy from Detroit was sleeping under a poncho liner with a Georgia redneck with a California Mexican standing guard. Funny though, we'd get back in the base camp and the '60s racial strife was going full bore.
Last I looked the '60s have been over for a long time, except on the left where it's still 1968.
Look, SPLC makes its money (big donations and some small) from claiming that right wing racists are under every bed and planning to take over yesterday. It's resulted in a decent income for them for nearly thirty years.
It has one limitation. The number of racists has been steeply declining for at least fifty years. Half a century ago, much of the country had segregated drinking fountains. If someone publicly argued for them today, he'd be classed as a psychotic. Even the Klan (if you could find some of them) would disavow him as a lunatic.
So SPLC has hitched its economic wagon to fighting something nearly as dead as the smallpox virus. It has to go hunting for something on which to fundraise, and hopes every now and then to find a exhibitionist who doesn't mind looking like a loonie. OK, they found one, whipped out a story, and will probably pull in a grant from someone. No need to get excited.
BTW, the members of the Realsaxon website were just annihilated by guys from Normanskickass.com. The survivors are going to be turned over to angevins.gov, who are real hardasses.
Angevins? No way - those guys are fags!
But thank you, D.T. Hardy. A truly great comment from start to finish.
You too, Peter. (By the way, you might appreciate this story.)
To you and all others here (including Bluejay who rightfully called me out) - you have elevated the level of the discussion, and I appreciate that.
If you really want to amuse and/or depress yourself, read the comments at the Gawker or Raw Story links.
The hatred and contempt for people who serve (unless they're gay, I guess) is palpable.
But they Support the Troops™!
I read a few comments at Boing Boing - some were bad enough.
What's funny (meaning not funny) are those who can't imagine a recruiter or a commander or a First Sergeant/SNCO could be a black woman (or anything other than a white heterosexual male). That all these imaginary ignorant white male bigots in charge allow racists and rapists and various other ne'er do wells to run rampant in the ranks just because they need the numbers.
Kudos to those who call BS in comments there. (Some of whom are then accused of being blind like Germans in 1935...)
To understand the context of this, you have to understand that most leftists believe that neo-nazis, klansmen, christian-identity etc are large groups to which a significant percentage of the American right belong to and a much higher percentage are sympathetic to. When they find a web site with "dozens" i.e. more than 24, kooks merely claiming military service they see this as confirmation of the vast fascist conspiracy that underlies the American right.
In the fantasy world of the left, the neo-nazis are the distillation of the American right. They believe this with iron certainty even though neo-nazis and the like are (1) overtly hostile to capitalism and big business (2) hostile to mainstream christianity and often atheist (3) opposed to free trade (4) opposed the liberation of Iraq (5) hold Israel to blame for all the troubles in the middle-east etc. If you remove the racism from their ideology, you end up with an ideology very close to that of the American far left.
Their need to inflate there own self-righteousness leads them magnify a tiny, highly-marginalized, wacky subculture of racist socialist into this great threat to the republic. They especially like to stigmatize the military whenever possible so they absolutely believe that such people are common in the military. They see an ice cube floating by on the ocean an imagine a iceberg in the depths.
Conversely, they ignore the viscous anti-Americans on the far left. Almost all of the large anti-democracy rallies during the early part of the liberation of Iraq were organized by ANSWER a anti-revisionist i.e. Stalinists communist group. Bill Ayers was easily the equivalent of neo-nazi, complete with terrorism but no one on the left has any problem with him moving in the same political circles as Obama.
The obsession with neo-nazis is the leftist's version of Dungeons and Dragon were they get to imagine themselves heros fighting some monstrous evil instead deluded geeks obsessing over pathetic, powerless, losers on the margins of society.
What ever kills a lonely Saturday night I suppose.
When I reported to my battalion for duty (back in the 70's) they were just wrapping up a homosexual rape case that sent two guys to the stockade. A couple of years later when I was at Brigade HQ we got a Nazi transferred up to us because he was in "imminent" danger in his battalion. He was a great admirer of Hitler, and hunted up (so he said) a semi-clandestine Nazi club/shrine in Germany when we went over for ReForGer. They discharged him because he was distributing pamphlets. One of the other guys at HQ had a disgustingly perverse porn collection. We also had drunks, adulterers, fornicators and rabid Elvis fans.
It takes all kinds, and the military's got every one of 'em.
Are these the same ones who "told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Jenjis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside"?
If so, I want them out of the military and testifying before Congress. This is where our next generation of leadership comes from!
If anybody in the military is actually doing any of that stuff, they probably ought to be disciplined as well.
How many people are in the military again?
In 20 years of Army service, I encountered Nazis once. In 1989, I was a MILCOM's EO Advisor on my third tour in Germany and conducted an informal inquiry on behalf of the Community Commander. A group of three junior soldiers became loosely affiliated with a local group, the latter of which was banned by German law. While they had not participated in the group's activities while on duty or in uniform and therefore were not subject to punishment under the UCMJ, their conduct went to character. One of the three was administratively discharged and the other two were barred from reenlistment. Seldom was there a substantiated case of either Skin Head or pro-Nazi activity in Europe during my two years as an EOA. Beyond that, in was not uncommon for soldiers to purchase there some piece of Nazi memorabilia (which was not prohibited) and I met a few who collected it solely because of historical interest of for future profit. (I myself have a 1939 Reich-pfenning (a penny) with the Nazi cross on it.) Were there and are there bigots in our military? Sure, and they come in every color. Yet if they demonstrate discriminatory behaviors or act in any way contrary to good order and discipline, leaders and commanders then and now root them out and boot them out.
How many members of the nation of Islam are in the military, a group that openly hates whites? Is there any research being done on this? Of corse not! The black man ALWAYS has agood reason to vent against the white man in any fashion he deems neccessary due to the mistreatment that those white men's ancestors befell on his right? Gimme a fucking break...
How many members of the nation of Islam are in the military, a group that openly hates whites? Is there any research being done on this? Of corse not! The black man ALWAYS has agood reason to vent against the white man in any fashion he deems neccessary due to the mistreatment that those white men's ancestors befell on his right? Gimme a fucking break...