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« Weird and a trifle Quixotic... | Main | Recruiting Problems? »

October 25, 2005

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Should I Stay or Should I Go?

By Greyhawk

The Salt Lake Tribune reports that 80% of Utah National Guard troops intend to reenlist - a number similar to retention rates nationwide. Army and Air Guard members have served numerous deployments to the Middle East and elsewhere, and many of the Utah troops surveyed are now preparing for Iraq.

Utah has shouldered more than its share of mobilizations. Shortly after the terrorist attacks on the U.S., Utah led the nation when more than 80 percent of its forces were placed on alert or mobilized. Those early deployments have resulted in Utah Guard members serving more tours than their counterparts nationwide.

Nationally, of the nearly 500,000 Guard and reservists deployed since September 2001, only about 76,600 have been called up twice - and all but 2,200 of them volunteered for a second tour, according to the Pentagon. And nearly one-third of the volunteers - for both Guard and reserves - listed a Utah address.

I'd be remiss in not taking this opportunity to salute Utah Guard member Chief Wiggles - one of the earliest (if not the first) milblogger from Iraq. But as this article makes clear, there are many more like him at home.

And we'll let them explain their motivations - for staying in or getting out - in their own words.

From the 80% staying in:
"Age 55 Guard retirement."
"It's who I am; it's what I do."
"Camaraderie."
"Duty, honor, country."
"Fight the war."
"Full-time job."
"I'm an American and we are at war."
"I actually like my job."
"If not me, who will do it?"
"I love it!"
"It's the right thing to do."
"Lisa."
"Love for my country."
"Loyalty to country and retirement."
"Patriotism and paycheck."
"Protection of U.S. way of life."
"The country needs us."
"USA, brother!"

From the 20% getting out:
"1st Sgts. & platoon leaders."
"Don't care anymore."
"Family."
"Got another job."
"I want to be free."
"Lack of leadership."
"Medical insurance is very bad. They don't pay!!!"
"Nobody can get the pay right. Takes too long to fix."
"Not enough money or bonuses."
"Not worth the risk."
"Tired of higher rank bullheadedness and lower rank slothfulness."

Would anything make you change your mind and re-enlist?
"$50,000."
"A conflict that I believe in."
"Better training. Better leaders. Less inspections."
"Change leadership."
"Dream on!"
"Get rid of the stupids."
"Health benefits for guard members."
"Maybe if they paid me $1,000,000."
"No."
"None."
"Nope."
"If my wife said yes, but that will never happen."
"Promotion and big bonus."
"Reduce the stupidity."
"Retirement - same as full-time soldiers."
"There's not enough paper to list everything."
"Three years for $30,000 signing bonus."
"Truck load of cash."
"Two-rank promotion and a desk job."
"Yes, GI Bill extension, $25,000 re-enlistment bonus."
Time will tell if the stupidity is reduced.

But the best quote of the piece comes from 1Lt Bruce Bishop, a Salt Lake County firefighter and Afghanistan veteran who's currently deployed to Louisiana. I can hear Dave Letterman introducing this one: The number one reason for staying in the Guard is:

..."because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting that, I'd be afraid to leave the fate of this nation entirely up to them."

Update: A look at two organizations experiencing varying degrees of success at Iraq war recruiting here.

(Also see a recent discussion on recruiting here.)


Posted by Greyhawk / October 25, 2005 7:07 PM | Permalink

16 TrackBacks

Bruce, from us out here in the hustings: you da man! Read More

Greyhawk does it all better over at Mudville Gazette and this post is my choice for post of the day and contains the quote of the day, too, from 1stLt Bruce Bishop... Read More

..."because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting that, I'd be afraid to leave the fate of this nation entirely up... Read More

Damn skippy. from Pirates! Man Your Women! on October 25, 2005 9:03 PM

From the Mudville Gazette…The number one reas… ... Read More

...because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting that, I'd be afraid to leave the fate of this nation entirely up to them. (via Mudville Gazette) Read More

Why They Serve from The Indepundit on October 25, 2005 9:57 PM

1ST LT. BRUCE BISHOP explains why he's staying in the Utah National Guard. "Because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting... Read More

Reasons to Enlist / Re-enlist from MY Vast Right Wing Conspiracy on October 25, 2005 10:42 PM

The Mudville Gazette shows reasons for re-upping given by the 80% of military members who re-enlist, including this gem from 1Lt Bruce Bishop, a Salt Lake County firefighter and Afghanistan veteran who’s currently deployed to Louisiana: …”becaus... Read More

Why Do They Serve? from Reasoned Audacity: Politics in Real Life on October 25, 2005 11:39 PM

Greyhawk posts today results from a survey of Utah's National Guard reporting why they are reenlisting, or not. Why are you staying in? Here's the one answer that really got me: "Lisa."... Read More

Why re-enlist? ... because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting that, I'd be afraid to leave the fate of this nation entirely up to them. Thank you, t... Read More

When asked why he had recently re-enlisted in the National Guard, First Lieutenant Bruce Bishop replied: ..."because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about... Read More

(via Cox & Forkum) Update: A soldier is asked why he re-enlisted. His answer: …because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting that, I&... Read More

Why They Stay from Right In Raleigh on October 26, 2005 11:52 AM

But he does have faith that the American people will overcome the daily prattle they are hearing and support the soldier as he brings freedom to yet another corner of the world and brings safety to the American people. Read More

Mudville Gazette via Right In Raleigh:


..."because as I look around at the state o...
Read More

Jumping on the Bandwagon from A Rose By Any Other Name on October 27, 2005 2:07 AM

Mudville Gazette has a great piece on the reenlistment rate of the Utah National Guard and quotes as to why they are doing it. Read More

1Lt Bruce Bishop, a Salt Lake County firefighter and Afghanistan veteran , currently deployed to Louisiana, on why he reenlisted: ..."because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses... Read More

On why he chose to continue to serve in the Utah National Guard: 1st Lt. Bruce Bishop, 31, a Salt Lake County firefighter, said he'll stay "because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses th... Read More

11 Comments

Best blog of the day as far as I'm concerned. This will give me a buzz for the rest of the day. Thanks,

Senior Chief, USN, Ret.

That I believe may be a good fair report based on the way the percentage of comments went. If not now, cleary 5, 10, 20 years ago we may have seen the same type and percentage of comments.

."because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting that, I'd be afraid to leave the fate of this nation entirely up to them." I love it, can you send this to Rush?

..."because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting that, I'd be afraid to leave the fate of this nation entirely up to them."

I think however you should take into account that Military service is a transformative experience for many. And that there are probably quite a few soldiers who just re-upped that started out as "candy-asses". ;-)

Starting off as a candy-ass and willfully remaining one are two different things....

The link in the update (regarding two stories about success at Iraq war recruiting) does not work for me. Any suggestions?

1st LT Bishop is a Real Man who deserves to be supported, as do all our troops. What have you (the collective you) done for him and for them today?

Subsunk

Subsunk: Hear, hear!

www.anysoldier.com

www.soldiersangels.org (especially Valour-IT, which is close to my heart)

Excellent. Let's make it 2002 dead dumbasses over there. Keeps them out of our neighborhoods.

"because as I look around at the state of this nation and see all of the weak little pampered candy-asses that are whining about this or protesting that, I'd be afraid to leave the fate of this nation entirely up to them."

Translation: "It's more fun than paintball in the forest."

Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, Personal Courage. Those are the Army values. I don't want to serve with people that can't uphold those values. Good riddance to the 20% that can't hang.

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November 26, 2010


America@war
[Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit.

That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary.

From their about page:

The Naval Institute shall remain

INDEPENDENT - A non-profit member association, with no government support, that does not lobby for special interests;

NON-PARTISAN - An independent, professional military association with a mission, goals and objectives that transcend political affiliations; and shall encourage

IDEAS - Through its respected journals Proceedings and Naval History, its conferences, its books and its online content, in support of those who serve.

"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation:

The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism.

Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented.

I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are.

"Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result.

Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web...

And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed.

The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down.

*****

But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:

Closing Blogs is nothing new. So many site's owners just give up on their own. They come and go, you know, these MilBloggers do. Like any other sort of blogger. Many post in the lonely down hours far from home, spill their guts for the world, then abandon their spots when the tour of duty is up. They have lives again somewhere in the world, and no need to share the details. So it goes.

Many are truly gone - no site left at all. "The page cannot be found." Other blogs remain, like abandoned defensive positions in shifting desert sands.

Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down.

If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real.

And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale.

We've already made history, it's time to save it.

(More to follow...)




Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) |

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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
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  • Smith: Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, Personal Courage. Those read more
  • Wilson Kolb: "because as I look around at the state of this read more
  • Nancy: Excellent. Let's make it 2002 dead dumbasses over there. Keeps read more
  • FbL: Subsunk: Hear, hear! www.anysoldier.com www.soldiersangels.org (especially Valour-IT, which is close read more
  • Subsunk: 1st LT Bishop is a Real Man who deserves to read more
  • E. T.: The link in the update (regarding two stories about success read more
  • armynurseboy: Starting off as a candy-ass and willfully remaining one are read more
  • Patrick (Gryph): ..."because as I look around at the state of this read more
  • Kathie: ."because as I look around at the state of this read more
  • Ray: That I believe may be a good fair report based read more

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The Mudville Gazette is written and produced by Greyhawk, who recently retired from 24 years of active duty in the US military, but will maintain this disclaimer: Unless otherwise credited, the opinions expressed are those of the author, and nothing here is to be taken as representing the official position of or endorsement by the United States Department of Defense or any of its subordinate components.

Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house.

I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email.

Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed.

Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com

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*****

Tending Distant
Fires


Far from hearth and home, watching
Cold alone but not alone
On distant shore and only wanting
Safe return and little more

What tales we'll tell
When that time comes
When tales can be told

When things grim
Seem far away
When other fires go cold

Some distant sunset, vision fading
Memories remain
And tired eyes gaze 'pon folded flags
While distant drums beat their refrain

Saluting fallen friends whose names
And youth will never fade
Here's to those on other shores,
for them live well, the price is paid

- Greyhawk,
Baghdad,
December 2004