Waving a Flag

once again, apparently someone with no military experience or exposure (other than what he reads in spy novels and the MSM) who draws an erroneous conclusion based on erroneous assumptions.. or maybe that's just total ignorance... and again, using neutral information to support a previously-held conclusion... grrr. best you can do is just flail back at them... intelligently, of course, G.

What Ann Hornaday and many others fail to grasp is that a worms eye view of something will not generally provide context. Does anyone think if you followed an infantry squad through WWII recorded everything they did and said that would would get an inspiring view into the greatness of the American Soldier or a look at the ugliness that is war? The answer is you probably get a little of both.

Her comments speak volumes as to her relative ignorance of how soldiers are...they bitch, they don't like what they are doing and they want to go home, I don't understand why we need to do things this way and my boss is an idiot...I'm sure soldiers at Valley Forge said pretty much the same thing...it's the nature of the soldiers life.

I especially enjoyed the gratuitous poke at KBR...they just don't stop. Truth of the matter who else is there to do what KBR is doing over there (Feeding and housing all the soldiers in theater among other things)...of course that's beside the point.

"Somehow I've missed this "enemy dehumanization" training. Was it in a classroom setting, or just a PowerPoint emailed to the global list? (I confess I often delete larger files without reading them...)"

You missed that training, too? I keep looking for the syllabus and the description of some tape we were supposed to watch on that subject, but I can't find it anywhere in the military training catalogue.

Perhaps it was supposed to be given right next to the sensitivity training, equal opportunity, harassment, sexual harassment, and the orthopedic injuries/VD lecture we're all required to receive annually as well. Since we have to take all that other training, perhaps the "enemy dehumanization" training just couldn't be shown since it was lower priority than the "don't say anything bad about Muslims because it is harassment" training.

Just thinking out loud here. If anyone else knows where I can get such a training lecture or film, please let me know. I'm making up next years Long Range Training Plan and wouldn't want to miss some required lectures.

Subsunk

Greyhawk,

I'd advise you to read "On Killing" by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman (USA Ret.) where he explores the history of the Army's efforts to dehumanize the enemy through marksmanship instruction. You know, the transition from WWII era bullseye targets to human-looking pop-up targets. We went from a World War II situation where only 1 in 7 infantrymen engaged the enemy in combat to Vietnam where over 90% of troops in a firefight engaged. Grossman, hardly an "MSM" aparatachik, attributes this to dehumainization/desensitization in training. FYI, a number of child psychologists are concerned about the same phenomenon in kids that play videogames like "Grand Theft Auto."

As a field grade officer, you really should read more professionally. You sound like an uninformed civilian wingnut when you attack a non-veteran journalist for repeating something that's been studied ad nauseam by the military's own research psychologists.

Every part of BCT is designed to have a certain effect. There's a reason certain sequences and certain stress-environments are applied at certain times.

Outlaw,

Your comments regarding Halliburton as a benevolent service provider ("who else will do it?") are part of the problem.

Answer? SOLDIERS!!! Soldiers performed most of the duties KBR provides downrange in previous conflicts. The contractor to deployed soldier ratio is nearly 7x than it was during the 1991 Gulf War. The Active Army's been pared back from 777,000 in 1989 to around 490,000 today with comparable cuts in the USAR.

Are contractors, FOR PROFIT corporations cheaper? No, their not.

The Army did an okay job of feeding, sustaining, fixing and housing itself from 1775 to 1995. Don't be duped by thinking contractors are the only, best or even cheapest way to provide field services.

I just want everyone to know that IRR Soldier is part of the camp that believes that the US Armed Forces are the true evil in the world. Killing is not a natural act. So if training to kill the enemy is "dehumanizing". So be it. I don't want our Armed Forces to be "sensitive" on the battlefield. They can do that when the enemy is killed or surrenders. Somehow I'm pretty sure those islamofacist animals that massacred those poor soldiers didn't get their "dehumanizing training" from the US Armed Forces. Oh, I don't know maybe try the Koran and it's views on infidels.
This documentary just proves that these soldiers are human. My Dad served 25 years in the Army and retired a Master Sgt. He states that if a soldier "isn't bitching or moaning about something, it's probably because he's dead."
nuff said!!!!!!!!

Pete,

Why do you put words in my mouth? I said that modern marksmanship training is intended to DEHUMANIZE THE ENEMY in the eyes of the recruit/trainee. It's been that way for 45 years. It's how we got 90% of young infantrymen to engage enemy targets under fire in Vietnam. That's a fact and I even cited a handy primer written by the very man that taught me squad/platoon tactics nine summers ago at Ft. Lewis, WA. Hardly a "moonbat" or "traitor" or whatever cute name you have for anyone that dares call Greyhawk out for posting ridiculous things blown out of context.

I consider the Armed Forces the true evil in the world? News to me especially considering that myself and my two brothers are part of "evil." What's up with that statement dude?

Your Dad's service is not a proxy for your own failure to "man up" in a time of war. We're taking enlistees and OCS applicants up to age 42. That way you can "school us" on how it's done. Why I bet there's a MiTT somewhere in Iraq that would love to have you.

Soldiering and holding the throttle on over-stressed, exhausted and loyal 18,19 and 20 year olds isn't business for rank amateurs. Done wrongly, really bad things can happen to both those young soldiers and folks they come in contact with. Done right, folks come home alive, the mission is accomplished and the Army's honor remains intact.

Without contractors supporting the efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the deployed troop numbers would have to be doubled in order to support ourselves. If this were the case, IRR soldier would be changing his name to soldier. There would be fewer troop rotations and fewer troops to fill said rotations. No, the contractors aren't perfect, but they are necessary.

I haven't seen the film yet but I intend to. I have one question though...GO #1 prohibits the taking of pictures (still or video) of dead bodies, both US and Iraqi. Was this waived?

pete dawg, you're right on that. If a soldier isn't bitching, he just doesn't care anymore, he's given up. As long as they're working while they bitch, I say let 'em bitch!

"modern marksmanship training is intended to DEHUMANIZE THE ENEMY in the eyes of the recruit/trainee"

Here I thought it was just an element of realism, one that actually left no doubt in my mind exactly what we were training to do. So would training by shooting at concentric red rings instead of silhouettes be a way to re-humanize the enemy?

IRR decided to misrepresent what I said and decided to make it personal, well I'm game.
1. Reading comprehension probably isn't one of IRR's strengths. Greyhawk was commenting on what a Washington Post reporter stated. Let me simplify her point "Since the US military is training mindless killers so what if they act like barbarians around some "dead insurgent". Now if in boot camp some drill sgt says "since you killed the enemy, the military states you get to do anything you want with the body." Then I'd say she had a good point. But as we all know that just isn't the case. Greyhawk is just pointing out another case where the "liberal media" shows its bias and assumes the worst about our military. Hence the remark "Somehow I've missed this "enemy dehumanization" training.
2. IRR makes another stupid remark and said I put words in his mouth. I didn't do such a thing. All I stated was that he comes from the camp that thinks the US Military is evil. Now maybe I might be wrong about him, but when you click on his name it takes you to some dumbass anti-recruiting website http://rncwatch.typepad.com/counterrecruiter/. In my opinion I don't think that's such a big leap to assume that about him, just read what the stupid website has to say. What makes military recruiting so evil that you'd have to counter it? Now if you don't want to be lumped in with that camp, I suggest you link to some other website. Just a suggestion.
3. I'd like to thank you for "dehumanizing" me in your special way. You want to emasculate me and discount my opinion because I didn't serve the military. It's just a weak minded attempt to "shame me" into not stating my opinion about this war. Now why I wasn't allowed to join the Army is none of you f@#$ing business, but it wasn't from a lack of trying. But I do have cousins that are serving. One just got back from Afghanistan and the other is serving in Mosul with a Stryker brigade. My oldest son has just signed up he's going to boot camp in September. I'm proud of him. I thank God that I raised such a great son. In fact all those guys serving are mine and my families heroes. That's why I support them. Last time I checked this great country is still a democratic republic. There are 300 million people living in the US. The majority of them haven't served one day in the military. I say they all have a God given right to their opinion. Thank God, we don't live in IRR's delusionary world where you are only considered a "man" if you've served in the military. My cousins and my son might beg to differ with you.

SFC D,

You've bought into the spin peddled by for-profit corporations that they are indespensible. Actually, they have crippled the Army's surge capacity (Isreal/Palastine/Syria/Iran anyone?) and are bankrupting the US treasury.

We've downsized and become beholden to contractors that cost more than doing things "in house". Now, we're bent over a barrel and say there's no other way. Nonsense.

I'm not ready to declare the largely self-sustaining Army of 1991 as a bad thing. I will say that our current lack of surge capacity for global contingencies is worrisome.

Greyhawk,

As I suggested, read the book. You can even by it at the MCSS section in most PX/BXs. Not surprisingly, you completely miss the point.

Another thought ...

Greyhawk,

What's up with that militaritic/jingoistic quote from GK Chesterton. Surely as a field grade officer, you've been exposed to the well-documented belief that soldiers in combat persist FOR EACH OTHER - not for hatred, Mom, Apple Pie or the like.

SLA Marshall's 1947 classic, "Men Against Fire" is a good place to start. Spend less time blogging and more time reading about your profession.

I wonder if the increase from 1 in 7 soldiers in WWII who 'engaged' in a firefight to the 90% who 'engaged' in firefights in Vietnam and Iraq. (Stats taken from previous comments)

I wonder if this change is due to tactics.
The type of battle, has changed from the 'battle lines' of WWII to enemies who attack from all directions.

There is no way in hell that 90% of the soldiers deployed to Vietnam and Iraq actually engaged the enemy.

I belive what you are talking about was, the way the Army changed its training to get more of its soldiers that are in combat to actually use their weapons. In WWII a substantial number of INFANTRY soldiers that were in acual combat failed to use their weapons against the enemy...so after a study was conducted the Army changed the way it trained soldiers to try and insure they would actually use their weapons in combat. The Army on the other hand doesn't take active measures to make sure I see the Iraqi insurgent as an inhuman beast...the videos he makes of them cutting the heads off of their captives pretty much does the trick for me.

The way the Army is structured today, we can't do what we are doing without the support of companies like KBR...even in Vietnam the use of contrators was already in full gear...and KBR was one of them. There were extensive plans to deploy contractors in support of operations during the cold war as well.

Pete,

You can't quit putting words in people's mouths can you? Your "simplification" of the reviewers thoughts in your last post are baseless and inflammatory.

Yes, I link to counterrecruiter. Why? I was a recruiter and the current apparatus/incentives used to attract young Americans to service is fundamentally broken and do not leverage the full strength of America's enlistment eligible youth. In other words, our best in terms of native language ability, physical prowess, stamina and intelligence are largely "missing in action" from our military. For this, the military's allocation/focus of recruiting resources is at least 50% to blame. Feel free to peruse my thoughts on that site. You will see two things: 1) I'm in favor of a renewed draft so our nation can have the "depth and agility" to meet global threats; and 2) I exhaustively outline over and over again WHY I believe as I do. An unholy alliance? Perhaps. But so is the alliance of Tom Tancredo and several progressive black ministers against immigration. The only way to "fix" recruiting and return the spirit of the citizen-soldier for the current system to "break". It's well on it's way. The "New American Militarism" as typified by yourself and Greyhawk poses, in my mind, the greatest domestic threat to our liberty. I have but one life to live and I'll do everything I can to stop it.

Finally, I never said or inferred you needed to serve to be a "man". My own grandfather was exempted from WWII (though the other served) and I never viewed him as lesser. I DID infer that I have grave problems with you and other folks that haven't served that breathlessly advocate continued war, sacrifice and casualties for a cause that is going very, very badly right now. No, I'm not talking about tactical losses in the field, but I am talking about a military operating at the outer-limits of its personnel capabilities. You advocate more deployments and ignore that "metal is hitting metal" - namely the Army's forecasted shortage of 3,500 active duty officers in FY07 and its current shortage of 10,554 USAR LTs/CPTs.

You remain silent while the Army degenerates from overuse, the promotion of marginal personnel out of necessity and a relaxation of recruiting and initial term retention standards. This silence is complicit with its destruction.

If your son enlisted for four years, he can expect 3 deployments to Iraq, with the third on stop-loss. As you said, we are a nation of 300 million. Why defend the status quo reflexively? Why not question a larger national sacrifice if this is all "worth it."?

Outlaw,

As I said, read Grossman's book. If it is a flawed thesis, why is it sold at the Infantry School book store?

Secondly, while we have always used contractors, we have never used them to this scale. As stated earlier, the ratio of contractor-deployed soldier in Iraq is SEVEN times the ratio of even the Gulf War. Contractors are doing things that they probably shouldn't be, because our Army is completely dependent on their ready availability. Just because they're doing things currently, doesn't mean it's a good idea. It is however a great way to minimize the sacrifice borne by the amount of the US population in uniform.

COL Grossman's books are very good reads. But let's be clear. The change in the training tactics from bulleyes to man shaped pop-ups is more about Pavlovian conditioning than "de-humanizing" the enemey. Target pops up, you aim and shoot, it drops, repeat. You get trained to reflexively shoot at movement of a man shaped target. That is why the shooting rates jumped to 90%. If you want to infer that's 'de-humanizing', well whatever. De-humanizing in war is going to happen. It's a defense mechanism for the brain. IMHO, that is usually a good thing while in the heat of a fight. Now, that does not mean a total lack of empathy. But too much of it will make you hesitate and that can make you dead.

The jist of COL Grossman's book is that if we are going to program soldiers to kill and don't properly deprogram them after the war is over, to not be surprised if there's going to be problems.

So the Army is trained to kill? News to me, but then I don't examine the Army much. As a Marine, I know we (Marines) were trained to know how to kill, not trained to kill.

The U.S. invasion of Iraq has unleashed a new wave of sexual terrorism against women there. Not that the so-called milblogosphere cares about this. After all, they are Iraqis and therefore they deserve it, right children?

Try the link once more.

Greyhawk, you and the others will be looking until hell feezes over because it was never distributed by the military. But the original was found by someone, still unknown, who made a copy of it and passed it on to an enterprising young journalist at a rodeo in Texas some decades ago.

While that copy is now lost too, luckily, excerpts of the most revealing parts of the manual had already been incorporated into the syllabus of most J-schools as clear cut, "truth to power" scale examples.

I have never doubted this truth, I heard it on CBS.

And wee willy's winky raises his ugly head once again. Willy, I'm willing to bet there were more rapes and sexual assaults IN YOUR HOMETOWN than occurred in Iraq this year. Are you going to find an article somewhere to blame that on the military too?

Well of course you're willing to make that bet. In Iraq, rape is seen as shameful for the victim so it's rarely reported. Which is just the way you love it, I'm sure. And of those that are reported, you'd ignore the reports because the people making them are Iraqis, who deserve whatever they get if the so-called milbloggers are to be believed.

While I disagree with most of WW says, I think he's dead on about the milbloggers attitudes towards human life. They have little use for Iraqis and refuse to believe their testimony in the Haditha case. To them, certain Iraqis like that tragically paralyzed LT at WRAMC, are useful only as photo ops.

Sadly, when the last helcopter leaves the embassy roof - or its 21st century equivalent - they'll be forgotton.

You forget that we eat the babies that are the product of those rapes that we don't report, WW.

My point is that the number of rapes and sexual assaults committed by military members is extremely low when compared to the population in general. I'll never say it doesn't happen or try to excuse it. You'll find that nobody will scream for justice more than the members of the military will. However, we'll be screaming for a fair trial, not trial by congress or trial by media.

And you're right, rape is shamful for the victim in Iraq, so shameful to some that the victim may be stoned to death by the males of her family. You don't need to lecture me on Iraq, WW. C'mon over and get a clearer view of the reality of Iraq. Reading is a great thing, but it's not a substitute for experience.

Oh look, Willy's brought a friend!

What's the matter, IRR goofball? Kevin too busy to play with you? If you weren't jumping for joy every time there was a setback in Iraq, we might listen to you. But so far, nobody on the Joint Staff, Army Staff or Centcom staff has died and left you in charge. So your ideas how to man the military are quite wonderful fantasy. But a snowball stands a better chance in Hell than you would of ever being able to make your plans work. I'm awful glad that, as an O-3(-) or whatever you left as, you know so damned much about manning and supplying an Army.

And how wonderful of you to point out how well read you are. Must be hell spending all that time hitting the books to become such a mental stud muffin. Tell me, son, how long were you thinking of actually staying in the military when you volunteered for that duty and at what point in your pathetic pointless life did you lose your mental faculties such that you had to show O-5s of the world how much smarter you are than they are?

I just wish you had enough brains in your head to know when you were outclassed. But that is wishful thinking on my part.

And Willy?!?! Welcome back child. Glad to see the facts show themselves again. What facts are you quoting now about how many Iraqi women have been raped by US soldiers? What is it now? 200,000 or so? Surely there must be quite a few redheaded AmerIraqi kids running around and slobbering over their poor raped mamas in Iraq by now. Can you find a photo of one, or evidence of one? Surely statistically it must have happened by now, right?

Bring on your stupidity son. I've needed a laugh at work all week. Don't disappoint me, turd.

Subsunk

IRR, to borrow that timeless phrase from one of our greatest Presidents "There you go again."

Like a loose cannon, spouting out your misguided rants and ignorant thoughts about me.

1.. " You remain silent while the Army degenerates from overuse, the promotion of marginal personnel out of necessity and a relaxation of recruiting and initial term retention standards."
"I was a recruiter and the current apparatus/incentives used to attract young Americans to service is fundamentally broken and do not leverage the full strength of America's enlistment eligible youth. In other words, our
best in terms of native language ability,physical prowess, stamina and intelligence are largely "missing in action" from our military. For this, the military's allocation/focus of recruiting resources is at least 50% to
blame."

I'm surprised you haven't screwed yourself into the ground with the way you think. Now, what is one of the reasons the Army is degenerating? Is it because we have "a relaxation of recruiting" or because the recruiting standards are too high and they are missing out on the cream of the crop? Please, I beg you try to keep your thoughts coherent so that people can understand what you're trying to say.

"Focus. Focus. Focus." from Dunga Dan Blather.

2.. Thank you for the claim that Greyhawk and I are the greatest threat to American liberty. If only my high school guidance counselor could see me now? He thought that I wouldn't amount to anything because of my underachieving ways. He'd be so proud. IRR you claim is so stupid and
asinine it's not worth seriously debating.
3.

Your Dad's service is not a proxy for your own failure to "man up" in a time of war. We're taking enlistees and OCS applicants up to age 42. That way you can "school us" on how it's done. Why I bet there's a MiTT somewhere in Iraq that would love to have you.

It's just as stupid as when a half-witted liberal calls Hannity and spouts off the preprogrammed line "Well, why doesn't Bush send his daughters
to Iraq?" It always makes me laugh because I picture half the audience with common-sense is screaming at the radio "Because it's an all volunteer Army you liberal nitwit." I ask any fair-minded person please re-read IRR's statement. Can any of you "infer" what he's really trying to say? Let's be honest, IRR's dig at my lack of military service "is what it is" a feeble attempt to silence debate. Now he wants to back track. No, it's my fault for not getting his very deep and thoughtful "point". That I'm just a shill and mouth piece for ass-backward Pentagon policies because I defend our military personal from liberal bias. And that he loves the Military and only wants to make it better by letting it "break". That is just plain stupid; it's like saying "Well, the government should just let the country get hit again by terrorists because we've collectively gone to sleep." Let's all pray for IRR he's certainly a tortured soul. Especially if he thinks he can build a consensus to make things better for the average serviceman by allying himself with a bunch of so called anti-war people. Let me finish by saying he called on me to "man up" that's pretty hilarious from a guy that wants people to "infer" on what he's "really" saying. Personally I think a "man" says what he means.

IRR sez

While I disagree with most of WW says, I think he's dead on about the milbloggers attitudes towards human life. They have little use for Iraqis and refuse to believe their testimony in the Haditha case. To them, certain Iraqis like that tragically paralyzed LT at WRAMC, are useful only as photo ops.

And now who's putting words in someone else's mouth?

Your last crack about "the last helicopter" betrays your own mindless insistance that Iraq is the "next Vietnam," despite all the differences.

I've read about the "dehumanizing" training (which does sound scary without context), and found the explanation -written by a milblogger who isn't as mindlessly and obviously biased as you are) quite comprehensible. To put it simply, soldiers are trained to react without emotion in a combat situation. This is not to deumanize them, but rather allows them to make intelligent decisions very quickly, aided by intentive habit-forming training.

The bottom line result is shown when the trainees react differently when shown (without warning) an image of a woman with her child, as opposed to a man with a gun.

The training allows our soldiers to react efficiently and accurately in battle. Even I understand that, and I've never worn a uniform.

Is the training perfect? What training is? Do we see a perfect application of this training in the real world? Certainly not; I'm sure innocent civilians are still accidentally shot, despite the best training.

But still, our soldiers are much better at reacting properly on the battlefield, which is what counts.

Greyhawk a "militarist?" A bad case of moonbat mentality, there.

Casey,

The "last helicopter" comment was said because premature withdrawal is inevitable. The current military force structure cannot sustain the current level of deployments. It's only a matter of time before "we declare victory and leave" resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands killed by a factional power vacuum.

Instead of declaring that you're right without any examination of the facts, you really should take an objective look at our personnel situation:

1. The USAR/ARNG are effectively exhausted as deployable, rotational forces. What's left is "human spackle" to fill in undermanned units or to stand up temporary, ad hoc provisional units. The USAR only has 37,000 deployable personnel remaining in a force of 191,000.

2. The officer shortage is acute, worsening and sustaining this rate of deployment will break the officer corps. The Army will be 3,500 RA officers short in FY 2007 and the USAR is currently missing 10,554. In context, this is more than 14 West Point classes or 3.5 years of national ROTC output.
What's more, even with stop-loss, where 40% of CPTs eligible to seperate, can't get out, the CPT attrition rate is rivalling the record 2001 numbers.
Sure, it's easy to say "stay the course" and "send more advisors". But ... those advisors are coming from a pool of junior officers that have already served multiple tours and are getting out in droves. More deployments will accelerate that.

3. Senior NCO retirements. A big problem for the Army right now. Many quality NCOs that would have traditionally stayed for 25 or 30 years are retiring at 20 - the earliest point they can. The USAR has faced record NCO retiremnets over the last 3 years. As a result, talent is lost when it's needed most.

These are just a few looming problems that will fuel a premature US withdrawal. I don't even want to think of the consequences of that decision for the mideast or our military.

Given the above-mentioned reality, why the failure on your part to face up to the problems faced by our military?

"Given the above-mentioned reality, why the failure on your part to face up to the problems faced by our military?"

Posted by IRR Soldier... at July 15, 2006 02:11 PM

How about because you are wrong, rocket scientist? Why bother arguing with an empty barrel. "Chiiling your free speech" by laughing at you is more fun anyway.

Subsunk

I want to see the movie

A "clearer view of the reality in Iraq?" The reality in Iraq is that the U.S. can't even control Baghdad, even when dignitaries are present. A clearer view of Iraq is that the U.S. has lost the war. All that's left now is to determine the timing and manner of withdrawal. Judging from the Liar-in-Chief's past incompetence, that will be a disaster too.

Have any of the children here noticed what's happening to oil prices and the stock market? Time will tell, but it looks like they are discounting the chaos the will accompany outright defeat. Ya ain't seen nothin' yet. My only question is who the milblogs and the White House will blame it on, because God knows you people never accepted responsibility or accountability for anything in your entire lives.

"Have any of the children here noticed what's happening to oil prices and the stock market? Time will tell, but it looks like they are discounting the chaos the will accompany outright defeat. Ya ain't seen nothin' yet. My only question is who the milblogs and the White House will blame it on, because God knows you people never accepted responsibility or accountability for anything in your entire lives."

Posted by WW at July 15, 2006 11:57 PM

Chaos is Willy's god. He craves it. He supports it, and he believes in it. He's never seen order that he likes unless it is the order of his tyranny over the rest of us, his power and righteousness over us peons, and his smugness and self assurnace that no one who disagrees with him could possibly be correct.

Yup. All that blame I've seen coming out of the White House lately sure makes Willy look like a genius. Why, they are blaming everyone in the world for the terrorists failure to put down their arms, dick up daisies and embrace the kumbaya.

Of course, I'm not seeing it. So far the only blaming I've seen is Willy blaming everything from the price of gas to the cost of his medicine on BusHitler. The guy is obviously omnipotent. He's responsible for everything wrong in this world, obviously. Isn't that your blame game, Willy turd?

At the rate Willy assigns power and omnipotence to W, he'll be Jesus Christ before breakfast.

Guess we know which side that puts you on, Willy, don't we? Don't stop to smell the brimstone in your own private Hell, boy. Cause the air conditioning where I'm sitting works just fine, and my truck has all the gas I need to drive right over your stupid ass.

How's those medications working for you? Seems like you're in nedd of a few more uppers to make you coherent. I'm sure I could forward some of the spam email I get to help you out.

Of course with the little willy Willy's got, I guess you'd need the Viagra contacts instead of the psychotropic ones.

Pontificate on, Willy. We'd love to hear more fantasy.

You're still stupid and wrong, though.

Subsunk

WW, climb down from the ivory tower of academia, put down the prophet of doom journalism that you worship, and act. I work with an Iraqi interpreter here, he's 53 years old, became a US citizen 32 years ago. He felt he needed to do something for for both his native land and for his new land. He's over here DOING something when he could very easily be enjoying his retirement. So tell me Willy, besides wetting yourself with glee every time something goes against the US, what have YOU done? Oh, I forgot...you're far superior to us military types who only parrot what Rove and Rumsfeld tell us to repeat, the Soldiers who are only in the Army because we had no chance anywhere else. You disgust me Willy, but I'll continue to defend your right to free speech.

Oh sheezzzz - with Greyhawks moving back to CONUS, WW gone, life became good. Had forgotten IRR Soldier and combined in one as WW, well, we still got our Greyhawks, and the incredible postings of the thought process that goes on inside of Greyhawk's head. Thank you, Sir... and M'am.... we will keep checking in, reading your words, scrolling through those posts that lend nothing to the success of our military forces around the world.

WW -- about this Iraq War --- seems, we won that a few years ago. Once Saddam's rule was demolished, how do you describe, the Iraq War? We are no longer at war with Iraq. We are fighting an insurgency in Iraq against a new government. Once Saddam was gone, the War with Iraq was won! And, on by the way, we won that war. Insurgencies have existed for multiple years in multiple counties, and we have been involved in many of those.

Currently, that is our situation in Iraq. We are no longer at war with Iraq. Thus, your exposes about our presence in Iraq, our objectives there, our leaving there, are totally off base. Your responses are those of a person believing we are still at war with Iraq. We are currently in something like a Phrase III or IV, whatever, of this War with Iraq. We won... we are not currently at war with Iraq.

Bring your responses into this year, our year of supporting the Iraq Army and police, and then maybe, there might be some of us, willing to listen to some of your carefully crafted words strung together. Did you get an A in that latest writing course assignment?

SFC D you are defending absolutely nothing. If you are actually in Iraq, you are there on a doomed neocon imperalist mission. You are a pawn. As for "glee," I am anything but gleeful. You Liar-in-Chief's disaster is rebounding on the U.S. "homeland" with growing force.

At the moment, we notice it in gas prices that are 3-1/2 times what they were when the Evil Clinton was in office, but that's only the beginning. If, as I am incresingly coming to expect, the U.S. flees Iraq in the same manner as it fled Vietnam, i.e., helicopters taking off from the roof of an embattled embassy, we will immediately see widdespread repercussions in unexpected places.

This will be your failure. Will you own up to it? I don't think so. I predict that, like all wingnut lying cowards, you will point the finger elsewhere. If you cared about your country you'd come home.

TexAnn, where do you get your drugs? The U.S. is "occupying" Iraq, but it can't even prevent open chaos in the capital. It has won nothing at all.

So, while he was lying his way into a failed stunt in Iraq, your Idiot Fake President let this happen. Now even the North Koreans figure they can fart upwind with no consequences. Just wait until our troops go running out of Iraq. The damn Canadians will be demanding the return of Montana. Do you dorks have any idea of what's about to come down because of your Fuhrer's incompetence?

Oh, and now look what your precious "ally" Israel has done. Between them and Bush, the world is being set on fire. Tell me, milblogs, do you love the smell of death in the morning?

WW = Whiney Wiberal
Whom to blame for oil going up??? hmmmmm.
Let's see how about all those new middle class Chinese and Indians that have an insatiable desire to fill all their new cars with oil. Demand has triple since the 90's. Damn that capitolism.
Thanks to the liberal environuts hold over certain Senators, we can't even drill for oil on are own soil. The Cubans and the Chinese can drill for oil in the Gulf we can't touch it. That's pretty stupid. But whoever said liberalism equals intelligence. If we had just listened to Senator Stevens all those years back oil from Anwar would be online now. And we wouldn't have to pussyfoot around with that crazy jew hating idiot running Iran.
I guess when gas hits 5.00 a gallon you'll just have to park the Volvo with the FREE TIBET bumper sticker in the garage.

Pete the oil in ANWR is a drop in the bucket. If you don't know that, then you're a typical wingnut idiot. If you do know, then you're a typical wingnut liar. The Cubans and the Chinese drilling for oil in the Gulf and we can't? Hey, wingnut, where do you buy your mushrooms? I want some!

"Oil Looking At $100."

I used to think that Bush invaded Iraq for cheap oil, but now I think he did it to drive the price up. $4 gas by Labor Day? Looks like it.

http://tinyurl.com/jrgxr

The Chinese signed a contract with the Cubans to drill for oil in the Mexican Gulf off the coast of Cuba, "Oh un-informed one." What part of that you don't understand?????
Senator Landrieu La (dem) knows this. That's why she finally voted yes to drilling 150 miles off our coast. She wants the money from the "evil" oil contracts for Louisiana state coffers. Why you don't know this is beyound me? Maybe you were to busy "visualizing world peace" or planting a tree to save Mother Gaia? Oh yeah that's another estimated 15 billion barrels by the way.

Jeesh - I've only got a spare minute, but at least I can cure one issue here. This is how a link should be formatted in html:

This a link to <a href="http://www.mudvillegazette.com/">Mudville Gazette</a>.

Done properly, it will show up on page as

This a link to Mudville Gazette.

Add bold tags on either side of the desired link text and it will be more visible:

This a link to Mudville Gazette.

"Pete the oil in ANWR is a drop in the bucket. If you don't know that, then you're a typical wingnut idiot. If you do know, then you're a typical wingnut liar. The Cubans and the Chinese drilling for oil in the Gulf and we can't? Hey, wingnut, where do you buy your mushrooms? I want some!"

Posted by WW at July 16, 2006 07:24 AM

Of course, if ANWR WAS on line today it could be producing over 200,000 barrels a day and we could compare that to Iraq's production of 2,000,000 barrels per day. Just 10% of Iraqs production? Bet that's worth a dime or two on the cost of gas. A couple more ANWRS and our problems could be over. Like off the coast of California and Florida and the Gulf of Mexico.

But we all know that if you piss and moan about the cost of gasoline and won't allow your own country to drill for more oil, then it means you are part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

By the way, Willy, what's your genius solution to lower the price of gas? Should we wait until the hydrogen cars get here, or just drill for oil in the meantime? Either way, it's in the Bush administrations energy policy. Perosnally, the hydrogen fuel cells is a dumb idea. The laws of physics apply. It takes more energy to split the hydrogen out of the water molecule than to combine it back in the fuel cell. So we will have to expend more electricity to get hydrogen from water than we would to just burn the oil.

But we aren't planning on getting the hydrogen from water, you say! We are planning on getting it from --- wait for it --- oil and gas! Now there's a solution to the energy crisis. Use hydrogen instead of gas and oil. Only to make it more energy efficiently and cheaper we need more --- oil and gas! BRILLIANT!!!!

While we're on the subject of your brilliance, Willy, what's your solution to over 2 missiles a day to hit Israel from Gaza, and over 700 in a week from Hezbolla on Israel. You know all the answers, so why don't you solve the problem? Got a solution? Child?

Then let's discuss the fact that there is less than 1 soldier being killed every day in Iraq now (this month) because the Iraqi Army is taking over, and the terrorists are beginning to run out of guns and bombs because of the Iraqi Army blockade of Baghdad. Violent place? You bet. All Iraqis killing Iraqis right now. I'd say that's an Iraqi problem to conquer. Will it happen because you snap your fingers, CAPT Willy? You haven't changed my mind, so imagine my skepticism that anything you say or do could change the Shiite and Sunnis minds.

One minute you say its a mess and we need to get out. The next minute you say its a mess because we haven't stopped the violence and we need to stop it, ergo we need to stay. Which is it rocket scientist?

I'm getting dizzy trying to keep up, Willy. Perhaps it is because my liquor cabinet is dry? Send more booze, bozo!

Subsunk

Scratches left nut, farts in Willy's general direction and opines that his mother was a hamster and his father smelled of elderberry wine.

GreyHawk,

Don't worry about the comments son. Get back to moving. We'll be watching things here. Hope the crazy blog money keeps flowing to you.

Subsunk

Of course, if ANWR WAS on line today it could be producing over 200,000 barrels a day

Which is 1% of daily American oil consumption, i.e., a drop in the bucket. Go back to the liquor cabinet, sub.

Like 1% help is no help. It either helps or it doesn't.

I see you rooting for it not to help.

Answer the other questions, fool. What is your solution. Until you have one, we'll keep doing it the right way.

Subsunk

Well let's put it this way, your nutscratching wingnut drunk: I have a friend in the Midwest who, within the past year, has equipped his house with solar water heating and electricity and cut his monthly utility bills by 95%. For the trillion bucks your Liar-in-Chief has spent on his failed adventure, every home in America could have a solar system that would cut oil use by 25%.

And we haven't even discussed electric cars, which even at today's short battery life could work for about one-third of the population. More if gas stations were turned into battery swap centers with the help of federal rules requiring interchangable battery packs. Even more if electric cars were subsidized if built by American manufacturers.

Oops, but you'd rather send American youth to fight a failed foreign war for Exxon and Israel.

Now we know you're makng stuff up, Willy...you have a friend....now that's funny stuff!

Dub-dub ...

In the late 1990's, I was in a position to see just how much of an effort was made to develop practical electric vehicles ... I designed a lot of specialized battery-test equipment that went into EV and hybrid R&D.

Believe me, those efforts didn't fail for lack of support ... they failed because of the nexus of the laws of physics and economics. Despite all the efforts to date, no one has come up with the eoectrochemical "light bulb" that would make pure EV's practical for the average American.

The population has spoken, regarding what works for them ... and EV's aren't there yet. Ask GM about their EV1.

You talk about swapping batteries ... when you should know that the storage-space requirements -- especially for the different sizes and types of batteries needed -- reinforcement of the power grid to support the vast increase in load from charging, and the environmental concerns, are serious impediments to the practical implementation of such a solution. Devil's in the details, dub-dub ... unless you think you know better than the American people what works for them, like most people who hold your Left-leaning agenda.

I think not.

And don't give me that moonbat BS that, because we put a man on the moon, government can solve any problem if it wants too ... and it is greed and politics who are keeping them from doing so here. Saturn/Apollo only had to work about a dozen times or so, and more or less the same way each time, for a few days ... it didn't have to work for millions of diverse applications, for yeats.

BTW as for hybrids ... while they are far more practical than pure EV's, the first-generation owners are now experiencing high levels of sticker-shock, as they start to replace worn-out batteries.

Today, I work with some of the most advanced battery techologies, designing portable-power systems for the military and other harsh-environment applications.

The best batteries for energy storage today -- lithium-ion -- are hideously expensive, requrie ELABORATE protection electronics to prevent fire and explosion (one reason I have a job!), are just now being built in sizes that are sufficient for EV usage, while still limited in their ability to handle the high peak currents seen in EV or hybrid usage ... and even then are over FOUR TIMES heavier than the gasoline they replace, cutting into energy efficiency.

Nickel-metal-hydride (NiCd's "green" brother), while safer, are still hideously expensive (see first-generation hybrid owners referenced above), and it takes even MORE of them by weight to store enough energy to run a vehicle.

Lead-acid is even worse in terms of weight and environmental impact.

Your statements reek of oversimplificaiton ...

... I too have a friend that converted his home to solar heat, several years ago. Problem is, the maintenance and management of that system takes significant amounts of HIS time, instead of the utility's. That is an economic cost your projections do not consider.

Your friend also still has to have the utility as a backup for cloudy days, turning the utility into a peaking provider that is less efficient, driving up utility costs and offseting the savings.

Bottom lines ...

Just like the watermelons in the environmental movement, the ideology of your agenda leads you to ignore the severe economic penalties and counterproductive side-effects of its implementation.

If this war was about lining Big Oil's pockets ... Cheney and Bush 41 would have stayed there in 1991.

If this war was about Israel ... the Jewish state would already cover the land described in the Old Testament as Israel.

Even if we never had used oil, that would have only slowed down our enemy today ... not stopped them from seeking to destroy our way of life.

Sooner or later, we would be fighting this war ... oil or no oil ... because of a few who seek to impose their evil upon us all. Not because of greed or Messianic delusions on the part of a President.

rich, there is a cohort of drivers who use their vehicles for short trips only. They are the customers for electric vehicles. Yup, it's lithium-ion batteries I'm thinking of. Standard designs would go a long way toward range extension, and the packs themselves could be charged at night when the grid is less taxed. In fact, they could easily be charged with solar panels.

The explosion risk in lithium ion batteries is real, just as it is real with gasoline itself. But it's manageable with effort, and in fact the new lithium ion batters do manage the risk quite well. No one, including me, would argue that electric cars are a solution for everyone, but they could easily be a major factor if those who run this country weren't in such deep hock to Big Oil.

Ditto for other alternatives, like solar, wave and wind. Those things work. Your attempt to minimize them is bizarre.

Note: When I say lithium-ion batteries could easily be charged with solar panels, I'm not suggesting solar cells on cars. I'm saying that if gas stations were put into the battery exchange business, battery packs could be charging all the time off of solar cells at thosed stations. Quick swaps of standardized batteries would extend battery range.

You don't have to be a Democrat to support any of that, but you do need a third digit in your I.Q., which I guess means you have to be a Democrat.