Open Post

Good luck with the technical problems.

WW -- bet you are really frustration that you haven't been able to post your articles these few days. Have a feeling you are about to cost the gracious Greyhawks lots of money for bandwidth with your collection of articles you haven't been able to post.

When you getting your own blog? I'm sure there are plenty of folks around here willing to help you get started.

Oh, look! The "Liar Not Brief" is back. In both of his lengthy untrue articles he has not produced one single fact beyond the bald faced lies asserted by a jihadi who is only slightly less credible than the murdering bastards who killed Pvts. Turner and Menchaca.

Glad to see you back, airhead. I always knew what kind of crap you shoveled by whom you supported. And I see now that you give greater credence to those who lie for a living than those who find the Truth. Your true colors show through as usual, Willy. If you can find someone besides a reporter to believe what the RAW STORY article says, let us know. We'd like to lie to them and get our pictures in the paper as well.

See ya around, moron. When you get some facts. Just remember, you're the one supporting the killers of Menchaca and Turner and their friends. And we won't forget it.

Subsunk

PS,

I apologize for getting PFC Tucker's name wrong.

He is still a hero in the first degree.

Willy is still a moron.

Subsunk

That's right: We're there to win their freedom, but nothing any of them says can ever be believed until it involves a stiff-armed salute to Subsunk's lying Fuhrer.

Well, since the journey to the wedding in Pakistan took them to Afghanistan without the bride, one must wonder what 3 stalwart and honest young British lads were doing there. I imagine that was some bachelor party in Kabul, eh? They obviously went there for the outstanding female entertainment didn't they? What? The Tipton 3 aren't even Afghani or Pakistani? But English? Well, perhaps they can be forgiven for mistaking Pakistan for Afghanistan or vice versa. Poor British schooling, you know!

You are still a lying, idiotic moron, Willy. Keep on punching though. The face you smack will someday be your own.

Subsunk

Missed ya, WW. A lonely voice, cying out in the wilderness. Correction. I meant pissing in the wind.

Just saw live on FOX:

Senator Santorum and Congressman Huckster just announced that-
Declassified:
Since 2003 coalition forces have recovered 500 Chemical rounds in Iraq.
Degraded Sarin and Mustard filed.
More rounds expected to be found.
Filled and unfilled rounds.

Damn WW,
I told you a while back that I personally held a Sarin round and you told me I was lying.
Do you care to recant your previous statements where you called my personnal experiences lies, or would you rather continue on with irrelevant rants that are wrong 100% of the time.
Actually I kind of admire you. Perfection is very hard to achieve....

Not that it will matter given that subby and the rest of the milblogosphere is all in favor of torture, but this explains why they were in Afghanistan:

http://tinyurl.com/je69y

awww, idn't it cute? widdle WW is back to pwetend he's a gwown-up.

You know, I'd be willing to bet good money (if I had any, that is) that ol' WW is in serious violation of U.S. and international copyright law with all those long-winded cut-and-paste jobs of his.

http://www.captainsjournal.com/2006/06/20/ramadi-the-abject-failure-of-the-us-press/

Hey fatso it's called "fair use." Look it up, idiot.

I could be wrong, but I thought we already took care of this guy.

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=61615

fatso? idiot? That's the best you can do? A six-year-old could come up with a better retort than that.

As for 'fair use', while INAL (and don't even play one on tv), I suspect your cut-and-paste jobs are, at the very least, skating very close to the line that separates fair use from copyright infringement.

You're the one who calls yourself fatman, so I think changing it to "fatso" has a certain wit. But I'd admit that calling you an idiot may well be in the realm of the obvious, sort of like pointing toward the East at 10 a.m. and saying, Hey you! Hot yellow thing!

Snopes.com still has not updated their Tal Afar story about the letter the Tal Afar mayor wrote to the troops to thank them for liberating his city. The status of the story remains "UNDETERMINED" and the last update was in February. Time to get on their case again to update the page with the facts.

Gee, it seems some people actually are stupid enough to enter a war zone with weapons in their hands, convinced by folks in a nondescript mosque, planning a humanitarian picnic in Kabul for seven days. Just like my kids volunteering to work with old folks at the old folks home. Of course, my 16 year old is smart enough not to enter a country under attack with a weapon. And the Tipton 3 were only 23 at the time. Perfectly innocent young lads.

Guess they grow 'em big and stupid in Britain, --- or Pakistan, ---- or Afghanistan, wherever these liars really are from. Like CNN is a credible source on this. Tell one side. Never tell the other.

Of course, we grow 'em really stupid here, too. Willy will believe anything a jihadi tells him.

Remember PFCs Turner and Menchaca, little boy. They will come for you next because you trust jihadis over US soldiers. And the jihadis won't leave enough of you to pour out of a blender.

So now who is the torturer in chief?

Subsunk

Alright already. C'mon Karl! Stop the clever charade. We know you're posing as WW to set up a "staw man" for right thinking folks to shoot at. Your trademarks are all over this one. "WW" or Double W? You dog, you.

D. Ox

"You're the one who calls yourself fatman, so I think changing it to "fatso" has a certain wit."

Well, no more than half. Probably comparable to a nit.

Ox, I swear I am not Karl Rove.

Willy,

Then shutup and quit acting like him.

Moron.

Subsunk

subby, are you telling me that you don't like the Liar-in-Chief's chief of staff?

By the way, I see that Mudville Gazette features, among other things, something calling itself The Captain's Journal, which is a site run by a civilian coward who deletes anything other than wingnut commentary. Typical for the so-called milblogosphere, which is nothing other than a conduit for far-right-wing propaganda.

...I guess that makes YOU (WW) a far-right-wing propagandist?

Aww, that's okay, malclave. If WW wants to have some fun with my handle, it's all good (NO, not that handle, WW. Sorry to disappoint you). At least while he's doing that he isn't feeding firecrackers wrapped in bread to seagulls.

No Willy. What I'm telling you is you act like an ass**** here every day, rude, obnoxious, mooching off the kindness of GreyHawk and his family, and then you expect us to respect your point of view. You are the one who thinks Rove is the brains behind the so-called "Liar-in-Chief". At least Rove has the courtesy to use his own platform to discuss his talking points instead of posting crap online which is only useful when printed to be used as toilet paper.

You, on the other hand, have always spouted crap, have one agenda and one only, to discredit Bush, Rove, Republicans, Military folks, and any with a political belief other than yours. You believe all military folks lie to protect themselves, will do anything they like to other folks they don't agree with, and are on the payroll of the Republican party, whether they worked for the Bush administration, Clinton administration, or even the Carter administration. You act like we all resign and enlist based on who wins an election. You have no clue what makes military folks do their duty, and you try to belittle any who don't fit your profile of how easy military life must be on the government teat.

You are impolite, arrogant, misguided, and stupid. You are also wrong. Not just occasionally, but every time you post something here. You are selective in your talking points, aiming to show only the worst of America, and ignoring anything to the contrary. You ignore evil acts conducted by those you characterize as "victims" of abuse, and you will believe anything they say, without backup, over the words of reliable sources.

Calling folks names every time they disagree with you feels good, but it doesn't mean you are the sole arbiter of Truth. Until you can learn to take the actual reports of the investigations at face value, and not twist them to your own agenda, you will always lose, always have a closed mind, and always be unwelcome here.

You have tried your best to ruin any discussion on the subjects GreyHawk has posted unless the discussion is what you want. This is not your blog. You don't get to rule other people's lives, although I'm sure if your Dhimmis got elected you would assume that would be OK for them to rule Republican's lives, take our money, give it to people who don't work for it, or who come to America illegally, instead of to Americans who do work for it and have accidents or mishaps which require such help. Every time you do something stupid here, it can have unintended consequences. Even you aren't smart enough to know the future.

So you'd better start acting civil around here or we'll keep calling you moron, airhead, or sh*thead to our hearts' content. Banning you would be perfectly acceptable. You don't let mentally ill people run buses or trains off the road. And I don't let other people determine how I should feel about something or believe in their cause just because they think I am evil or wrong.

You'll not take any of this advice, I know. It is useless to discuss anything with you. So do what you must. If you continue to badmouth our troops and be disrespectful to people who served honorably while you luxuriated in safety at home, however many years ago it was, then I hope you die and rot in Hell. It is my privilege and my right to do so. I earned it. And all your ranting about how my service does not give me the right to do so has zero value in the eyes of the law, and the conscience of Americans.

Goodbye, little boy. Have fun storming the castle.

Subsunk

True dat!

Folks, if there's one thing that you wingnuts have in common with the lefties of the Internet, it's absolute intolerance for a different point of view.

Really? You're still here aren't you? Intolerant? Just because we dislike what you say don't mean we're intolerant. It means we think you're stupid. And that is completely different than intolerant.

Intolerant is this: ----------> WARNING, this website is NOT for kids. Beheading videos reside on this website. Don't go here unless you are serious about intolerance by the Religion of Peace!

http://www.ogrish.com/beheading_videos.html

Now, Willy. Are we clear about the difference between thinking you are stupid and thinking we are intolerant?

Subsunk

Yes, subby, we know the other side is nasty. Not nearly as bad as the Japanese in WW2, but bad. Now, in WW2 the USMC had a policy of humane treatment toward those Japanese it captured. The policy was followed, and it produced a lot of usable battlefield intelligence. The U.S. won that war, and didn't stoop to torturing people to accomplish it.

Now, you might answer by asking whether we should nuke Iraq then. My rejoinder would be no we shouldn't. The U.S. nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki because it judged that the net effect would be to save lives. I think that was right. Nothing like that argument could even begin to be made with respect to Iraq.

But the torture issue is analagous. In WW2, the U.S. did not have a policy of torture and "sexual humiliation" of enemy combatants and civilians like it does now. And if you want to see proof that torture doesn't work, just have a look at Iraq, where the U.S. is going down to defeat as we yammer.

Willy,

Dude, for the umpteeth time. It is not US policy to torture prisoners. Matter of fact the policy is extremely strict and abides/adheres to the Geneva Conventions and is stressed time and time again in training and war (yes, bad apples exist, but that doesn't constitute policy). You want to know why Willy Boy? It's b/c you don't want what happened to the two soldiers who were just captured to happen to you or any of your soldiers; and more importantly b/c we are people of honor. That's why we treated Japanese prisoners like we did you idiot. Japanese culture at the time viewed surrender as a tremendous slight on your honor and they pretty much considered you second class. That's why they treated us like they did.
And there were many more cases of prisoner abuse (even executions) in WW2 than there will ever be in this war so what point are you trying to make by comparing the two? Seriously...

Go ahead and find me some link that shows a Super Level 9 Bushitlerhaliburton Secret Torture Facility that the spooks run. Then you can tell me how you know it is true because you saw it on your way to Neverland with Peter fucking Pan you raging idiot.
Just shut up. Your ignorance is astounding. Your arrogance is infuriating and your opinions are almost always wrong.

I say almost b/c I actually agree with your nuking Iraq point. First time for everything...

Yes, rick, in fact it is U.S. policy to torture prisoners. The U.S. specifically authorized it, while denying that it's torture. As part of the authorization, the U.S. said it would ignore the Geneva Conventions. I have posted the evidence many times here; the most recent posting was deleted by the webmaster here in keeping with wingnut fear of the truth.

Americans are people of honor, but not the senior civilian leaders nor the military leaders who transmitted the orders to torture down the chain of command, where those orders have been implemented and continue to be implemented. Those who are at the spear point and who actually commit the toture have no honor either.

Just as importantly, they are all losers. Torture is what losers do. They do it out of frustration and rage at their failure. The U.S. is losing in Iraq, and torture is both a cause and a symptom of the ongoing defeat there. You and the rest of the knee-jerk, stiff-armed so-called milblogosphere hate the truth.

So did the Germans and the Japanese. Lots of good that did 'em.

Baghdad Spins Out of Control

The response? A State of Emergency. Oh, and in one day: 18 deaths in Basra, 10 in Hibhib, 19 in Baghdad. When you don't even control the capital after occupying it for three years, you've failed. Cheney was right about "last throes," but wrong about who was in the last throes.

Wow,
Agree twice in one day, what's this world coming too.
Absolutely, those who torture have no honor. The people ordering torture have no honor.
And yes, people that torture are the losers.

That's why the terrorists are losing and they know it. That is why they torture.
Don't you think that thousands of soldiers would be coming forward if they were ordered to torture prisoners? There are a million Veterans and NOT ONE has said that torture is SOP. Some losers/people with no honor did torture, got caught and were punished.
That's the good thing about America. We actually strive for perfection. We are the most transparant society in the world. Half of the things the world knows that we did wrong; they know b/c we told them. And dissent is one of the reasons many of these wrongdoings come to light.
I respect differing viewpoints and adult conversation.
The problem with you is that you never admit you are wrong. You preach about pre-conceived notions and the milblogosphere, but are too blind to see that you come to the table with your mind made up. You presume to lecture us and even "lefties" on their "absolute intolerance for a different point of view", yet you are the worst one here.
If you can't see that then you are a lost cause.
You are flat out wrong about torture being policy. There is no other way to say it. I was in, I lived it and was at a level that would have seen it if it happened. The United States Military does not have a policy for torture.
Move on to the next subject...

In fact, military personnel have come forward, with varying results. What usually happens is that the wingnut blogs viciously attack them. I'm not talking about the one fake-o who was exposed a while back, but rather the real thing. They've been absolutely dragged through the mud.

rick you're simply lying about torture and U.S. policy. You don't want to know the truth. Your politics depend on not seeing it. If the U.S. hadn't implemented a torture policy, I'd still be critical of the Iraq War on other grounds. But if you were to acknowledge the torture policy, it would knock the underpinnings out from your entire edifice of thinking about the war.

That's why neither you nor any of the rest of the so-called "milbloggers" can afford to listen to or to tell the truth. Torture in this war is not isolated incidents, it has been integral to the failed U.S. effort. Torturers are losers.

I mean, look what happened to that one chaplain who came forward. He wound up being falsely accused of spying, and of child porn, and being booted out and run through the mud. Another guy who objected to torture was strapped to a gurney, flown back to California and thrown in a nuthouse.

Several FBI agents objected to the torture and they were ignored. The International Committee of the Red Cross objected and they were ignored. I think that, at some point, we're going to hear a whole lot more about it.

But maybe not. Look what happened to the people who came back from Vietnam and told people about torture. They were villified by wingnuts just like you. You people hate the truth, love torture or both. You're degraded and hypocritical.

WW -- please admit it -- you just can't afford your own blog -- so let us help -- I'll ramrod in passing the plate to get you started on your blog, and you can link to Mudville -- Lots and lots of article you can then link to Mudville -- build your audience. Here, you got a set audience that isn't probably gonna change in the near future. But your own blog? Just dream of all the traffic we and you can generate for you to start, manage, control any topic you want to discuss about our President and our military. Thinkin' you might even get a bigger audience on your own, cause there are lots and lots of folks out there, who would never consider reading a Milblogger's blog -- and could and would find you elsewhere! Why, you could even build a larger audience than the Greyhawks.

Where are the dreams? Do you have any? Or, do you prefer to just continue to mooch off some pretty generous and understanding hosts with The Greyhawks? We promise to help you get established, to help you find your audience. Just let us know the address of your new home, and what we can do to help you get into a position to get your message out to a broader audience. See? We aren't all bad. We're really willing to help.

In Your Guts, You Know He's Nuts

Goldwater's nephew wants to establish concentration camps for illegal immigrants. Can anyone really be surprised?

Surprised at what WW's childish dreams come up with? No, nobidy is surprised.

Wow, They Can't Even Protect Baghdad's Rich

Now that ought to get the Liar-in-Chief's attention!

Ya'll take a look over at Michelle Malkin's blog. "MORE BLABBERMOUTH POSTERS"

She has assembled some great take-offs of the old WWII "Loose Lips Sink Ships" posters

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005433.htm

relating to the NYSlimes' traitorous revealing of the Administration's efforts in the WOT.

Faux News Gets Exclusive Access to Torture Centers

All other media were kicked out to make way for Deer Sturmer

Faux News Gets Exclusive Access to Torture Center

All other media were kicked out to make way for Der Sturmer

Come on, wingnut whack-jobs. Read the story a couple posts back about how your idiot Liar-in-Chief can't even protect Baghdad's rich. Read the whole story, then tell me that this war of yours isn't in its last throes. Not the insurgents' last throes, mind you. The U.S.A.'s last throes. It's over. We lost, and it happened because of your fake president's stupidity and incompetence.

"I mean, look what happened to that one chaplain who came forward. He wound up being falsely accused of spying, and of child porn, and being booted out and run through the mud. Another guy who objected to torture was strapped to a gurney, flown back to California and thrown in a nuthouse."

The chaplain was a Muslim who gave his adherence to Islam more credence than his oath to protect and defend the Constitution. He chose to believe Islam's teachings that Jews and Christians were evil instead of his own eyes. He saw no torture, no beatings, no abuse. But he did sympathize with the prisoners. Like that is a good thing for him to do. As for strapped to a gurney, I wouldn't believe anything a crazy person said was true either. I've supervised them, and they don't make for honest witnesses.

"Several FBI agents objected to the torture and they were ignored. The International Committee of the Red Cross objected and they were ignored. I think that, at some point, we're going to hear a whole lot more about it."

Not a single FBI agent saw torture and will corroborate it. Where is this person? What is their name? The emails provided indicate the FBI agent was worried that the methods used would not hold up in court. As FBI agents, they wouldn't use those methods. Well, duh. They never tried to prosecute battlefield combatants. You can't read a guy his rights while you are shooting at him in the next foxhole. "Hey raghead. You have the right --- pow --- to remain --- pow --- silent. Do you understand these --- pow --- rights?" "Allahu akbar --- rattatatat". "Is that a yes?" The ICRC has not documented one single case of torture. Where? You haven't produced a single document that says the ICRC said there was torture. They live at the prisons. They haven't seen anything they claimed was torture.

"But maybe not. Look what happened to the people who came back from Vietnam and told people about torture. They were villified by wingnuts just like you. You people hate the truth, love torture or both. You're degraded and hypocritical."

We'll say it one last time -- slowly -- so even you can understand it. THERE IS NO POLICY OF TORTURE IN THE UNITED STATES MILITARY. Period. All of the posts you have linked to SUPPOSE without documented proof of any sort that we MIGHT be torturing prisoners. There is no proof in anything you've posted, no matter how much you keep saying it. Until the US investigation find a documented policy from ANY leader or officer directing torture, you will never get anyone to believe it.

As for us treating our prisoners better in WWII than today, now you really have gone off the deep end. Not a single POW in WWII got a lawyer. Not a single POW in WWII got a Koran, halal meals, or any consideration to any special requests. They ate what our people ate. They prayed on their own. They were interrogated almost exactly the same ways they are interrogated today. You have just shown that you know nothing about what German and Japanese POWS went through in WWII.

There are many ex-POWs living in my area because they loved the American people so much after internment they came back, married an American girl and set up house. Now you've shown you truly are stupid.

As for last throes. I haven't seen anything to make me think the war is going either worse or better for the US. We're still where we need to be, there is a valid Iraqi government, and the Iraqis are taking over. As it should be. If you think think that isn't last throes, then I guess in a couple of years or more, when the Iraqis are free and independent, we'll all know you were WRONG again.

You sure are an arrogant close minded ass****.

Subsunk

They were interrogated almost exactly the same ways they are interrogated today. You have just shown that you know nothing about what German and Japanese POWS went through in WWII.

This is a flat lie. The Marine Corps had a policy and practice of humane treatment of Japanese P.O.W.s. In prior postings on this site I gave the link to the site that hosted a copy of the 1943 internal USMC report on the issue. It was debated here, and I was challenged to provide evidence that the policy was followed. I did so.

Individual soldiers and marines might have beaten up individual POWs or worse. Those things happen during wars. But the U.S. did NOT have a policy of torturing P.O.W.s as it has now. There was no "sexual humiliation" of P.O.W.s. The U.S policy, and largely the practice, was to follow the Geneva Conventions.

This time around, the Liar-in-Chief's administration has disavowed the Geneva Conventions and has instituted a torture policy. Like all torturers everywhere, the U.S. uses euphemisms for what it is doing.

Here is a good article which describes WW and the rest of the libs, leftists, Democrats and Enemy Media regarding how we should prosecute war: "Deluded America"
*****
"The morally superior (read: paralyzed) don't really take sides, don't really believe one culture is qualitatively better or worse than the other. They don't even believe one culture is just plain different from the other. Only in this atmosphere of politically correct and perpetually adolescent non-judgmentalism could anyone believe, for example, that compelling, forcing or torturing a jihadist terrorist to get information to save a city undermines our "values" in any way. It undermines nothing -- except the jihad."
*****
It's also interesting how libs/leftists/Democrats/Enemy Media consider terrorists the same as WWII POWs. Terrorists are not covered by the Geneva Conventions and this has been pointed out time and time again, but they continue to ignore this fact. The fact that the terrorists at Gitmo get any rights at all is due to the good graces of the USA.

Brother of U.S. Afghanistan Puppet Tied to Drug Lords

I wonder if the guy sends Rush Limbaugh his oxycodone these days.

http://tinyurl.com/rpmof

"This is a flat lie. The Marine Corps had a policy and practice of humane treatment of Japanese P.O.W.s. In prior postings on this site I gave the link to the site that hosted a copy of the 1943 internal USMC report on the issue. It was debated here, and I was challenged to provide evidence that the policy was followed. I did so."

"Individual soldiers and marines might have beaten up individual POWs or worse. Those things happen during wars. But the U.S. did NOT have a policy of torturing P.O.W.s as it has now. There was no "sexual humiliation" of P.O.W.s. The U.S policy, and largely the practice, was to follow the Geneva Conventions."

"This time around, the Liar-in-Chief's administration has disavowed the Geneva Conventions and has instituted a torture policy. Like all torturers everywhere, the U.S. uses euphemisms for what it is doing."

Only a true asshole could twist what I said about how we treat prisoners as humanely today as we did in WWII, into a slur against WWII Marines. The Marines of WWII and the Marines of today are EXACTLY alike. Both treat their prisoners humanely despite the crap you spout and the torture and butchery of both enemies. And your assertions to the contrary show you know nothing of real life, real Men and real Marines. You've shown not one item that says sexual humiliation was policy then or now, and you've just made the same argument about WWII soldiers as we are making now about those who beat or actually torture prisoners, are caught, tried, convicted, and imprisoned, as all the known cases have been. Individual cases occur. You said it. Why is it any different now? You've just made our argument for us.

You are completely mentally ill, boy. I'm done.

Subsunk