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 Greetings! You are reading an article from The Mudville Gazette. To reach the front page, with all the latest news and views, click the logo above or "main" below. Thanks for stopping by! February 2, 2006 Deputy Sheriff Guns Down USAF CopBy GreyhawkSenior Airman (Air Force E4) Elio Carrion is a USAF Security Police troop who recently returned from Iraq. On leave in San Bernadino County, California, his welcome home included three rounds from a sheriff's deputy - but we don't mean free drinks. The shooting, which occurred on a residential street in Chino, was recorded by a bystander and shows Carrion crouching on the ground telling the deputy that he was "on your side" and meant him "no harm."Caught on video. I haven't seen it yet, but I heard the audio today, and it's pretty damning. Update: Video here, better video here and a feeble attempt to defend the shooter here. The LA Times says they've ID'd the shooter A source close to the investigation confirmed the identity of the deputy as Ivory J. Webb IV, 45.Update 2: This is so typical of this department that is known for its obfuscation and outright manipulations of the system to protect their rogue cops. And how do I know this? A hint, first hand experience. I have both a state and federal case pending against this department and the county that protects them.Rest here. 4 Feb update: The San Bernardino Sheriff confirms the name of the deputy who shot Airman Carrion, and the victim's family wonders why the shooter isn't in jail. I do too. Posted by Greyhawk / February 2, 2006 4:13 PM | Permalink 3 TrackBacksGreyhawk has the story here. Hat tip: Blackfive. Read More ....you shoot an unarmed citizen three times in the back, when he's obeying every one of your lawful orders, you need to go to jail for the rest of your life. Read More Rage is rising over an officer-involved shooting in Los Angeles. As I mentioned last week, an Air Force soldier home on leave was essentially attacked by a Sheriff's deputy in San Bernadino County, California. That soldier, Elio Carrion, 21, is out of th Read More 14 Comments |
November 26, 2010America@war [Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit. That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary. From their about page:
"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation: The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism. Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented. I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are. "Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result. Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web... And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed. The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down. But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:
Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down. If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real. And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale. We've already made history, it's time to save it. (More to follow...) Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink |
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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
 
 
 Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house. I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email. Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed. Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com  Tending Distant Far from hearth and home, watching What tales we'll tell When things grim Some distant sunset, vision fading Saluting fallen friends whose names - Greyhawk, Baghdad, December 2004 |
I saw the video last night on the news and it was clear that the deputy said "get up" and the airman said "I'm getting up" right before the shooting. As soon as the deputy shot him he said "you don't get up" and a bystander (out of photo frame) said "but you just told him to get up". It was obvious from the video that the deputy was not in control. It appeared that the airman was trying to calm him down, but it might have backfired leading the deputy to be more agitated (NOT the fault of the airman). Then, as the police "expert" was quoted, the deputy may have mixed up "shut up" and "get down", particularly since the deputy started screaming "shut up" after the shooting.
My comment is, the deputy sure used a lot of foul language, which often escalates a situation on both sides. He also was yelling the entire time and seemed awful hyped up for what seemed like a short chase (according to the news). Maybe there are other mitigating circumstances, but it seems that this deputy needs some counseling, training, or maybe another job.
I saw it like Andrew. I think the police trainer is focusing in on the reasons for firing the gun. What I saw was a deputy unable to control the situation without being loud, vulgar, and using deadly force. Sadly, it seems he had the situation under control once he drew his weapon. I normally prefer giving law enforcement a lot of leeway in how they do their job. However, this guy, Ivory Webb, seems a danger to the public.
I'm happy the airmen is in good condition. I hope Webb is taken off the streets.
Andrew, three shots at an unarmed man at point plank range calls for a bit more than counseling.
The shooter was black
The victim hispanic
You can bet your last dollar
The story will vanish.
I saw this video as well, I'm sure I heard it without all the bleeps on the Today Show, but now I can't seem to find that video and the video that is available seems to be edited
On all counts a poorly trained officer:
1) Not in control, as exhibited by foul language, clarity of orders given, and attitude.
2) I am glad he didn't kill the airman, but 3 shots at point blank range and he didn't kill him? He has poor gun-handling skills as well as fire-discipline.
I watched the video... it's too dark, and I can't find a high-enough quality version to watch critically. Needless to say, I'd love to see/hear the original.
It certainly sounded like the officer told him to get up... unless he reached for his belt, pocket, or made some other move that might have appeared like he was going for a weapon, I can't see any justification for the shooting.
As for his saying "I'm on your side" and such... he wouldn't be the first felon who claimed to be a cop to get an officer to drop his guard.
I do tend to understate things a little bit, Greyhawk. Though, in regards to being unarmed, the deputy was too close to the suspect. You're taught (in a good class) that anyone in 21' with a impact weapon is a potential lethal threat. The deputy was well within that range. And given the angle of the airman and deputy, when the airman got up, his hands probably disappeared out of sight towards his waist (he appeared to us his hands to get up instead of keeping them out). Not good for the airman.
But I also agree with Elmer. The deputy wasn't controlling the situation very well (such as being too close). BTW - the favorite explicative was the f word, which in my book is about as strong as it gets. The deputy should have been a better shot, but it's not uncommon to miss more than hit (another thing you're taught). Fortunately for Carrion, the deputy was as bad at shooting as he was at controlling the situation.
The only counseling that deputy needs is state prison. There he'll learn what it's like to be bullied and terrified by people with weapons.
There is no justification for the shooting. None.
What was that jackass doing with a badge? He's no different that the racist bastards that beat Rodney King. I love the Police and this type of drooling stooge is exactly the reason many people don't trust them.
He needs to be fired, prosecuted, convicted, and dumped into a cell...
Of course, we all make mistakes--some worse than others. We're all sinners who need salvation. But it's not up to us to forgive this guy. Only God and his victim can do that. Our responsibility is to get him and any other threat to Public Safety off the streets.
Administrative leave? The Police Department needs to get rid of this loser.
The officer played football for the Iowa Hawkeyes, which will get you a free pass for anything. Hayden Fry says Webb is a stand-up guy, so it must be so, regardless of anything on tape. *rolls eyes*
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060203/SPORTS020502/60203006/1003&lead=1
Stand-up guys in positions of authority do not cuss like troopers and completely lose control of a situation they had complete control of. The cop was out of control, used very poor procedure and shut the man for no reason. Then he yells "Shots fired! Shots fired!" into his mike, which we all know means "Police offer being shot at. Please assist!"
The investigation should be short, the discipline quick, and the criminal trial easy to win. The guy is guilty as hell.
The video tape will be held as inadmissable and unless any witnesses come forward to testify the whole thing will be come out as officer justified shooting. Witnesses will be hard pressed to get to court. They know what they will go through if they try and take the law on. They have seen and heard about it way too much.
A civil suit will be filed, which will be tied up in court for years, until which time the Airman will have to give it up because of mounting legal defenses.
It's happened just exactly that way many times and it will continue to happen.
Law and Order, California Style.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
Well, I guess the accidental discharge defense couldn't be used (three shots), so they're going with "officer threatened." Pathetic. This "cop" should be in prison, it was no mistake, he CLEARLY instructs the person to get up, multiple times. His obscentify laced instructions were enough for him to be relived of his badge alone, add to that the shooting and we have ourselves a criminal. It's a good thing there was someone there to video tape the incident, absent that we would all be talking about a suspect being shot after resisting arrest. It looks like the officer ordered the suspect to stand only to give himself some sort of justification for shooting him. To defend this cop is shameful, his father is a coward, as has been the dept. so far.