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May 5, 2005

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Courage of the Conscientous Objector

By Greyhawk

Themes developing in comments threads around the blogosphere - and in the minds of many around the world:

1. On Aidan Delgado's claims that soldiers drove around in Humvees bashing coke bottles on Iraqi's heads: That figures, that's how those soldiers are. Remember Abu Ghraib?

2. On Abu Ghraib: You know those ignorant soldiers had to be working under orders.

In comments here I'm accused of defending torture for pointing out the guilt of those who did it. I'm also accused of denying that soldiers are capable of wrong doing in the Delgado case. I can't be both, but so it goes.

There's actually an interesting contrast point between the stories. In the Abu Ghraib case a young E4 discovered what was going on and turned the torture squad in to the chain of command, prompting the investigation. He risked a lot - obviously he knew what sorts of things the perpetrators were capable of, but he did the right thing. He seeks no publicity, but he's a guy who should be admired for what he did.

Contrast that to Delgado. Pretend for a minute he's not a liar, that what he claims to have witnessed was true. Rather than seek justice, he slinks off like a coward, applies for conscientious objector status, and begins making broad accusations. By not naming names he casts doubt on every man and woman in uniform.

But what he says isn't true. If it was, someone in Delgado's unit would have had the courage to step forward and put a stop to it, or told what was going on. Few soldiers are angels. Fewer still are criminals. But courage is common, and the rarest soldier of all is the cowardly liar.

By the way, I don't apply the term "coward" to his conscientious objector status. There's something to be admired in those who demonstrate the courage of their convictions, whether by telling the hard truth or by refusing to kill others, regardless of the cause. Delgado is a failure on both counts.

Desmond T. Doss is (he is still living) a 7th Day Adventist. This Christian denomination does not believe in the taking of life. Desmond Doss could have easily avoided service in WWII. Because of his upbringing and personal faithfulness, a request for CO status would have, most likely, been granted without question. Yet, Desmond T. Doss joined the Army, not to kill, but to save lives.

This quote discussed the character of a man, being vilified for his faith by those he served with:

So what do you do with a soldier who won't train on Saturday, eat meat, or carry a gun or bayonet? Doss' commanding officer knew what to do. Paperwork was initiated to declare him unstable, a miss-fit, and wash him out of military service with a Section-8 discharge as "unsuitable for military service." But Doss wanted to serve his country, he just refused to kill. He performed all of his other duties with dedication, was an exemplary a soldier in every other way. At his hearing he told the board, "I'd be a very poor Christian if I accepted a discharge implying that I was mentally off because of my religion. I'm sorry, gentlemen, but I can't accept that kind of a discharge." So the Army was "stuck" with Desmond Doss.

Go read the story of how he earned the Medal of Honor on Okinawa exactly 60 years ago today.


Posted by Greyhawk / May 5, 2005 6:09 PM | Permalink

2 TrackBacks

During the Vietnam War I registered for the draft in what was called a "1-AO" status. This meant that, as a "concientious objector," I was not willing to serve as a combat soldier but was willing to serve in the military as a non-combatant. Among oth... Read More

Pablo's Pity Party from The Indepundit on May 12, 2005 5:03 AM

YOU PROBABLY DIDN’T KNOW that Tuesday was a “National Day of Action for GI Resisters.” Well, it was! Notices were sent out to activists all over the country, urging them to converge on Fort Stewart, Georgia and San Diego, California... Read More

7 Comments

Name names. Are we to believe that even innocent Iraqi's aren't safe from the long tentacles of American commercialism? So determined are we to spread capitalism that American soldiers perpetrate bottled drive-by's and for good measure snap, "Here's your Coke, now smile, haji!" If this happened "routinely", why have the surplus of America-hating jounalists never reported or no photographer recorded? Delgado had a duty to report unnecessary violence. He didn't. Is he a liar or a patsy? I'll give you odds if you pick liar.

Regarding the NYT story and Delgado "enlisting on 9/11 before the terror attacks...

Sarasota, Florida and New York City are in the same time zone. If Mr. Delgado's patriotism really pre-empted the complete media satuaration that came with 3 planes crashing into US landmarks - two of them by the time the recruiting office opened at 9.00 am - we have to believe Delgado had his nose parked on the NG office glass, made it through and estimated hour-plus interview, Q & A and form-filling and didn't find out we were under attack? The NG office didn't have a radio, TV or a phone that frantically rang off the "Are you watching this!" hook?

Regarding Delgado's claim that soldiers quipped they "were going to Iraq to kill some ragheads"...

Does Delgado prefer his machismo in softer tones? Would he rather a soldier declare, "We're going to an area formerly known as Babylon to extinguish some gentlemen of Arab descent and incinerate their traditional head-dress."

If a soldier stands by his convictions that an act is immoral and refuses orders, I'd be more inclined to believe him, and, more importantly, respect their decision, if they were willing to suffer the consequences of refusing those orders, and not cast wild claims about in trying to defend their decision.

"2. On Abu Ghraib: You know those ignorant soldiers had to be working under orders."


If widespread abuse of Iraqi's was prevalent, more than 5% of the population would make "getting rid of the occupier" a priority.
(5% of the population surrounding Fort Bragg would like to 'get rid of the occupier'). Armies, by their nature, are somewhat more challenging than an office park as neighbors.

While the MSM may convince the left of widespread abuse. The people who count are the Iraqi's.

The story about Desmond Doss was awesome. I'm going to print it out for my Dad to read. Puts to shame some of these pretenders out there claiming Consciencious Objector Status especially after they've been in for awhile.

I have a post at my blog on what this is all about. Delgado's pulling a Kerry, trying to inflate specific "incidents" (some of which may be true or partly true) into a pattern of abuse that is general and commonplace (which is clearly not true).

Desmond Doss' story is amazing and inspiring.

His bravery and willingness to sacrifice his own life in battle are a fine example, as fine as you could imagine.

Yet, I am troubled that he was unwilling to kill.

He found his niche, and contributed to the war more than any soldier could reasonably hope to contribute to the war. But still, if nobody were willing to kill the enemy, we'd have an enormous problem on our hands.

Perhaps Doss felt this deep down inside, and his selflessness in battle was his way of compensating for leaving the dirty work of killing to others. Perhaps way down deep, he felt a little guilty about not sharing the burden of killing.

in response to your comments on Cpl. Doss May i suggest that you see the documentry that has been made about him. it may help you better understand his beliefs. i personally hope and pray that i too might have just half of his courage if ever faced with what he braved. just my two cents. thanks
mark

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November 26, 2010


America@war
[Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit.

That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary.

From their about page:

The Naval Institute shall remain

INDEPENDENT - A non-profit member association, with no government support, that does not lobby for special interests;

NON-PARTISAN - An independent, professional military association with a mission, goals and objectives that transcend political affiliations; and shall encourage

IDEAS - Through its respected journals Proceedings and Naval History, its conferences, its books and its online content, in support of those who serve.

"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation:

The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism.

Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented.

I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are.

"Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result.

Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web...

And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed.

The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down.

*****

But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:

Closing Blogs is nothing new. So many site's owners just give up on their own. They come and go, you know, these MilBloggers do. Like any other sort of blogger. Many post in the lonely down hours far from home, spill their guts for the world, then abandon their spots when the tour of duty is up. They have lives again somewhere in the world, and no need to share the details. So it goes.

Many are truly gone - no site left at all. "The page cannot be found." Other blogs remain, like abandoned defensive positions in shifting desert sands.

Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down.

If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real.

And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale.

We've already made history, it's time to save it.

(More to follow...)




Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) |

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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
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  • astrotec: in response to your comments on Cpl. Doss May i read more
  • Matthew Goggins: Desmond Doss' story is amazing and inspiring. His bravery and read more
  • Brainster: I have a post at my blog on what this read more
  • Toni: The story about Desmond Doss was awesome. I'm going to read more
  • Soldier's Dad: "2. On Abu Ghraib: You know those ignorant soldiers had read more
  • Keith, Indianapolis: If a soldier stands by his convictions that an act read more
  • Chachi: Name names. Are we to believe that even innocent Iraqi's read more

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The Mudville Gazette is written and produced by Greyhawk, who recently retired from 24 years of active duty in the US military, but will maintain this disclaimer: Unless otherwise credited, the opinions expressed are those of the author, and nothing here is to be taken as representing the official position of or endorsement by the United States Department of Defense or any of its subordinate components.

Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house.

I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email.

Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed.

Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com

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Tending Distant
Fires


Far from hearth and home, watching
Cold alone but not alone
On distant shore and only wanting
Safe return and little more

What tales we'll tell
When that time comes
When tales can be told

When things grim
Seem far away
When other fires go cold

Some distant sunset, vision fading
Memories remain
And tired eyes gaze 'pon folded flags
While distant drums beat their refrain

Saluting fallen friends whose names
And youth will never fade
Here's to those on other shores,
for them live well, the price is paid

- Greyhawk,
Baghdad,
December 2004