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February 11, 2005

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Survivor: Gitmo?

By Greyhawk

Warning! this is from an as-yet unverified AP report:

LONDON -- Two people vomited, two wet their pants, another suffered signs of hypothermia -- all for the cameras -- after volunteering to spend 48 hours locked up in cages and subjected to sexual humiliation, forced nudity and sleep deprivation allegedly like prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.

A British television station plans to air "The Guantanamo Guidebook," a program that re-creates some alleged techniques used at the U.S. prison camp for terrorist suspects.

Sounds like a big hit, though not everyone in Europe believes that pants wetting is "must-see TV":

"Your program may have undesirable effects of acclimatizing the audience to the use of torture. The real issue is, how do we make an end to impunity for torturers," said Brita Sydhoff of the International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims in Denmark. The group represents 200 rehabilitation centers for torture victims.

<...>

The methods used on seven volunteers included religious and sexual humiliation, forced nudity, sleep deprivation and extreme temperatures, Tim Carter, the show's producer and director, said Wednesday.

Rumor has it there are several clubs in London where patrons pay to receive such treatment. Perhaps some will sponsor the broadcast.

The program is one of four planned for British viewers during "torture week":

A broadcast date for "The Guantanamo Guidebook" has not been announced, but Yad Luthra, a spokesman for Channel 4 in London, said it is one of four programs dealing with torture planned for a one-week period in the next month.

Carter said television stations in other countries have expressed interest in the show, but none has bought the rights.

The other programs include a documentary by Clive Stafford Smith, a lawyer for Guantanamo detainees, that explores the issue of whether torture ever works when used on terrorism suspects.

Perhaps forcing them to watch hours of television might get them talking?


Posted by Greyhawk / February 11, 2005 4:28 PM | Permalink

23 Comments

HHHMMMM...Let me see if I have this right....if you have someone one decide to do it to you "CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY!" But....If you enter the room and drop some cash for it, it's just between conmsenting adults.

Maybe they are mad we bailed them out in the 40's, beacuse think of the fun they could have had getting their jollies when the Gestapo was foiled....

Hmmm, they need to make it more realistic though. The people must receive military training first. Oh, and they get to toss a grenade into a kindergarten class first.

I keep waiting for someone from England to prove to me once and for all, that they aren't a country comprised of sexually repressed inbreds who have nothing real and of substance to do with their time.

Gonna be a looonngg wait I see.

I wonder if they will have a "Sadaam Night" during torture week? I doubt it.

when they do a live beheading with a dull knife, let me know.

Real torture would be forced to have a face to face talk with a semi-literate with bad teeth.. oh wait...thats breakast with luvie, my bad.

This sounds like a bad skit on Satuday Night Live.
How long do you think that lawyer would hang on to attorney/client privlege if put to the test?

I don't care if the terrorist scum get humiliated! Religiously,sexually, whatever. Put a stick up their wazoo and call 'em a popsicle if that's what it takes to get the info to find more of them. I get angry about this kind of stuff. It comes out as an attempt at humor. If an apology is needed for my venting please consider it offered.

This from the country that locked up the farmer who shot someone who broke into his house. Geez, how did these people ever create the Brittish Empire? I was quite the Anglophile for years, but lately I've been getting over it.

It's spreading all over the blogosphere: Eason Jordon resigned! In a typical 'bury the news with a late Friday release' fashion, but resigned nonetheless.

Will you guys over there need some paper targets now?

/tongue firmly in cheek

Put a stick up their wazoo and call 'em a popsicle?

ROTFLMAO!

Why, that is an affront to popsicles everywhere!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Yes indeed this has been a most entertaining thread.

I guess I haven't been in the blogrealm long enough. I didn't catch the meaning of the abbreviations. Don't want to offend but please clue me in

mrrupert:

Rolling on the Floor Laughing My Ass Off

SO YOU ADMIT THE RUMORS ARE TRUE!!!

YOU'VE GOT SADDAM LOCKED IN A PADDED ROOM WATCHING BARNEY THE PURPLE DINOSAUR!!

YOU CRUEL, HEARTLESS, TORTURERS!!!

Thanks Curt. I was subjected to that Barney torture in the early '90s. Maybe it messed with my imagination. Cruel and unusual etc. Is compensation available somewhere for that?

Wanna know about torture? real torture? The kind that leaves onl the shell of men where once proud soldiers stood. Then ask Charley or maybe the Koreans or perhaps the Japenese.....now those folks knew how to torture a human they knew how to break a spirit. They knew how to leave nothing but the shell of a once proud human..... For heavens sakes people this is war and if the process to get someone to talk a little is too rough for your girlie man prioritys then too bad ...suck it up and pray the info we garnered from them might save someones life .

These idiots must not understand one thing: We are at WAR! I try to just ignore most of them unless they go after my servicemen/women. Then I lose it. Those piece of scum. They want torture? Send 'em my way! Do they really think that I'm going to believe our guys would do anything in front of a press camera? They really think we are that stupid. Gee, I guess it says more about them...! Hehehe.

Hmmm.

Ok let me get this straight. For 48 hours they're sleep deprived, put into small cells, stripped naked, subject to sexual humiliation and etc? And some of them wet their pants?

Hmmm.

Ya know. As a former USMC infantryman I can say with some justification that a Marine would laugh at these pathetic jokers.

Guantanamo is motivational ammunition for the armed opposition.. Jihadis react to it like we did to the incubator stories.. Except the incubators were fake and our torture is real.

They're recreating conditions in CUBA?, and they got hypothermia?
I thought the terrorists were in kennels outside, not in cold storage.

Take it easy on the Brits. They are good allies. We've spawned such illustrious figures like Michael Moore and Richard Gere although inbreeding might explain these two. Stupidity and ignorrance are world wide commodities.

Hmmm.

LOL.

If sexual humiliation and female titillation were torture, then every male junior highschool student in America is subject to torture on a regular basis.

Send them to Arizona where they sleep in un-air conditioned tents and wear pink underwear. After a week in summer they will be praying for gitmo.

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November 26, 2010


America@war
[Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit.

That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary.

From their about page:

The Naval Institute shall remain

INDEPENDENT - A non-profit member association, with no government support, that does not lobby for special interests;

NON-PARTISAN - An independent, professional military association with a mission, goals and objectives that transcend political affiliations; and shall encourage

IDEAS - Through its respected journals Proceedings and Naval History, its conferences, its books and its online content, in support of those who serve.

"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation:

The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism.

Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented.

I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are.

"Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result.

Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web...

And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed.

The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down.

*****

But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:

Closing Blogs is nothing new. So many site's owners just give up on their own. They come and go, you know, these MilBloggers do. Like any other sort of blogger. Many post in the lonely down hours far from home, spill their guts for the world, then abandon their spots when the tour of duty is up. They have lives again somewhere in the world, and no need to share the details. So it goes.

Many are truly gone - no site left at all. "The page cannot be found." Other blogs remain, like abandoned defensive positions in shifting desert sands.

Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down.

If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real.

And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale.

We've already made history, it's time to save it.

(More to follow...)




Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) |

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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
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  • Walter E. Wallis: Send them to Arizona where they sleep in un-air conditioned read more
  • ed: Hmmm. LOL. If sexual humiliation and female titillation were torture, read more
  • mrupe: Take it easy on the Brits. They are good allies. read more
  • KurtP: They're recreating conditions in CUBA?, and they got hypothermia? I read more
  • Collin Baber: Guantanamo is motivational ammunition for the armed opposition.. Jihadis react read more
  • ed: Hmmm. Ok let me get this straight. For 48 hours read more
  • Rosemary: These idiots must not understand one thing: We are at read more
  • Arathorn: Wanna know about torture? real torture? The kind that leaves read more
  • mrupert: Thanks Curt. I was subjected to that Barney torture in read more
  • Machias Privateer: SO YOU ADMIT THE RUMORS ARE TRUE!!! YOU'VE GOT SADDAM read more

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The Mudville Gazette is written and produced by Greyhawk, who recently retired from 24 years of active duty in the US military, but will maintain this disclaimer: Unless otherwise credited, the opinions expressed are those of the author, and nothing here is to be taken as representing the official position of or endorsement by the United States Department of Defense or any of its subordinate components.

Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house.

I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email.

Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed.

Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com

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*****

Tending Distant
Fires


Far from hearth and home, watching
Cold alone but not alone
On distant shore and only wanting
Safe return and little more

What tales we'll tell
When that time comes
When tales can be told

When things grim
Seem far away
When other fires go cold

Some distant sunset, vision fading
Memories remain
And tired eyes gaze 'pon folded flags
While distant drums beat their refrain

Saluting fallen friends whose names
And youth will never fade
Here's to those on other shores,
for them live well, the price is paid

- Greyhawk,
Baghdad,
December 2004