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« Baghdad: US Raid Frees Hostages | Main | Happy Birthday Mrs G »

February 9, 2005

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Rescued Egyptian Hostages

By Greyhawk

John Lucas of Knoxville Tn., emails to clarify events surrounding the resue of Egyptian hostages by US soldiers. I've added links to the text below, otherwise, since Mr Lucas' son was one of those soldiers involved in the rescue, we'll let him take it from here:

The Reuters report that you posted on the kidnapped Egyptians who supposedly escaped on their own from the trunk of a car is not accurate. I know, because my son and his platoon freed them and captured two (not one per the Reuthers report) of their kidnappers. The Egyptians may be slow to give credit to the U. S. Military for rescuing its citizens. The truth is that a hostage was not freed by the kidnappers. An article describing it appears in today's Knoxville News Sentinel.

It began when my son, leading a patrol, saw a suspicious car. They pulled it over, captured two of the three kidnappers and found two Egyptians bound and gagged in the trunk. Interrogation of the two prisoners let to intel re the location of the other two hostages and another US unit raided that location and freed them.

There is much more to this story, but I wanted you to know that they were not "released" but were rescued as a result of a heads-up effort by U.S. soldiers.

Here is what went unreported. I asked my son why they had not just shot the two who ran away (one of whom was chased down and captured). I thought that perhaps the Rules of Engagement prevented them from shooting them, since they had not been shot at first. He told me, however, that the ROE did permit them to shoot, but he never gave them a "fire" command because the street was too crowded and he was worried that they might hit civilians. So, instead, they chased them down. As a result of that decision, civilian lives were spared and all 4 hostages were rescued. It's a great example of good decision-making, good fire discipline, and concern for the people. But, not the sort of thing the media seems to want to report.

John Lucas
Knoxville, TN

Thanks for the heads-up sir! I always appreciate it when those with close knowledge of events contribute to the discussion. I really can't guess whether Reuters is guilty of slanted reporting or sloppy reporting, either way it says a lot for their credibility. Likewise since the story appeared in the LA Times I can't tell whether their editors gave it a "once over" prior to publishing. Your son's story is a great one - time was when competing newspapers would be falling over one another trying to get the "exclusive". Now a few sloppy paragraphs poorly fact-checked seem to be the best we can get from the "pros".

For those who missed it, here's how Reuters reported the story in the LA Times as Mr Lucas referenced above:

U.S. forces in Iraq stormed a house in Baghdad on Monday and freed two of the four Egyptian telecommunications engineers who were kidnapped Sunday, the head of their Egyptian parent company said.

Naguib Sawiris, chairman of Egypt's Orascom Telecom, said U.S. troops raided a villa, possibly in the mainly Sunni Muslim district of Adhamiya, and freed the two. The other two managed to escape on their own from a car they had been locked in, he added.

Not even close.

Kudos to you and your family, Mr Lucas. Enjoy that upcoming R & R, I hope your son returns soon, safe, and proud.

Update: For balance, this email from reporter Jules Crittenden (who did his own time as an embed in the invasion of Iraq). He makes points with which I sympathize:

Greyhawk, I hate to be in a position of defending anyone in this crappy, thankless profession of mine, but all of us are only as good as the available information. Regarding the Reuters report, it looks like they were given bad information from someone they could reasonablly expect to be an informed source...the Egyptian media company exec. We don't know whether they tried or were able to confirm anything with the military. Trying to nail down fast breaking news and crosscheck from a variety of sources on deadline can be difficult and problematic, and conditions are not always ideal. Theoretically, that's why newspapers come out daily, so what was missed or messed up the day before can be fixed today. It would be nice if we could sit on everything and do exhaustive reports every time, but then it wouldn't be news any more. Regarding editors in LA, it's not clear whether they had a reasonable opportunity to know there was a problem with the wire copy.

Absent evidence of purposeful manipulation, we have to give Reuters the benefit of a doubt. If I've missed that evidence somewhere in the postings on this, then disregard the above.

Thanks again for a great site.

Jules Crittenden

(Note: in an earlier version of this post I refered to Jules as a Marine vet - that was my mistake, he's never claimed any veteran status and was quick to contact me and point this out. Sorry Jules!)


Posted by Greyhawk / February 9, 2005 2:00 PM | Permalink

8 TrackBacks

What would we do without blogs? When four Egyptians held by terrorists--threatening them with the usual round of torture, forced denunciations of the West, and then beheading--were freed this week the legacy media couldn't agree on a storyline, opting ... Read More

The Reuters news service has gotten yet another story wrong. Over on the Mudville Gazette are the chronicles of this story run amuck. The story of a recent militarty operation in Egypt that freed hostages has been misreported. John Lucas... Read More

You know its getting sort of tiresome this constant drumbeat of negativity from the Press Corps. Exactly what are they trying to accomplish? We need to do a little more concentrating on their motives and less on their errors. Read More

What?! The media not doing its job? Al-Reuters not reporting accurately on the great, careful efforts of our troops? Shudder the thought. Read More

Not found in the usual wired press, but from Mudville Gazette. (Link here) Read More

That 's according to Egyptian press. Read More

I, on the other hand, love stories about the heroism, bravery, and just plain goodness of the military. Read More

[source] Reuters reports U.S. forces in Iraq stormed a house in Baghdad on Monday and freed two of the four... Read More

12 Comments

Here is a link the the original Reuters Article (both lines).
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7560876

It appears that the Egyptian government was the sole source for this article; although, Reuters did try to get the whole story from US.

"In Baghdad, a U.S. military spokesman told Reuters he was unable to immediately confirm the report, adding that the military had heard media reports and were making checks."


They should have issued a correction or addendum.

Hooah!

Well done!

Reader John,

You raised a fine man. I'm sure proud that he's one of ours.

Compared to the NYT Reuters wasn't that far off!

1.Here's how the NYT reports the story:

"Also on Monday, kidnappers released four Egyptian telephone engineers who were abducted Sunday in Baghdad...The Egyptians worked for a subsidiary of the Egyptian telecommunications company Orascom that built Baghdad's mobile phone system. They were ambushed Sunday outside their home in the capital and bundled into cars. A company spokesman said they were released Monday evening. "They are in good health and no ransom was paid," said the spokesman, Shamel Hanafi. "They should be leaving the country early in the morning." He offered no details on how the release had been arranged." [*NYT, 2/8/05]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/international/middleeast/08iraq.html?pagewanted=print&position=


2.Here's how CNN reported the event:

"Egyptian hostages released Four Egyptian technicians working for an Egyptian telecommunications company have been freed and are not hurt, the chairman and chief executive officer of Orascom told CNN Monday.

Two of the employees were freed from a villa in a joint operation between U.S. and Iraqi troops, and the two others escaped from the trunk of a car and dodged bullets as they ran to safety, said Naguib Sawiris. "They are in excellent condition," he said in a telephone interview from Algiers, Algeria.

In addition, one of the kidnappers was caught, Sawiris said. The two who escaped made their way to the company's headquarters in Baghdad and the other two were with U.S. forces in the Green Zone, he said."We are extremely happy," he said.

The four were abducted Sunday morning outside their house in the Jamiah neighborhood of western Baghdad.

The kidnappers demanded a $500,000 ransom in the afternoon, "which we had not responded to," Sawiris said. The technicians have been in Iraq for a year, working for Iraqna, a subsidiary of Egypt's Orascom..." [CNN, 2/7/05]


3. And here's how Centcom/MFN-Iraq reported it:

"BAGHDAD, Iraq –Soldiers from 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division, stopped a vehicle they thought was suspicious at approximately 4:20 p.m. on Feb. 7.
When they searched the vehicle, inside the trunk, the Soldiers found two blindfolded and bound men. The men were two of four Egyptian kidnap victims, taken captive on Feb. 6. When the vehicle first stopped, the three occupants fled the scene on foot. The Soldiers followed in pursuit, catching two. The two men caught are being held for further questioning."[MNF-Iraq Press Release, 2/8/05]

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/media-information/February/050208g.htm


*Note as of 2/9/2005 the NYT still reads "kidnappers released" without an update from the Centcom press release and with no correction in their "Correction Section". Apparently they are too sophisticated to read Centcom press releases.

Man, take off the conspiracy hat for a second. I really don't think Reuters was sloppy or biased. They quoted Naguib Sawiris, chairman of Egypt's Orascom Telecom, who was probably the only person who would talk to them who knew about the event. What bias is there in crediting the soldiers for saving some folks and not others?

The bias is in not doing the natural, responsible thing and asking the soldiers what happened.

Of course, judging from Eason Jordan's comments, they were probably afraid U.S. soldiers would shoot them, and wouldn't have believed them if they had asked them.

Biased? Nahhhhhhh...

ReutersLovesYOu: There is no fault in reporting what is said to them, but it seems that a responsible reporter interested in the truth, instead of saying the "U.S. military spokesman ... was unable to immediately confirm the report ... and [was] making checks" might have waited a couple of hours and got the whole story. I'm not denying he accurately passed along what one person said, but it seems that an e-mail list would have been just as effective for that purpose. He's supposed to be a journalist, after all, and add value to the data beyond basic wordsmithing.

Like father, like son. Brave soldiers both.

Ralph Artigliere

What more can one say. Thanks to a dad who allowed his son to join the military. Thanks to a dad who trained that son about what it is to be an American, and the costs invovled.

Thanks to a son who is over in a country, doing a job that needs to be done. A job that was well done.

But it does show what the truth really is, instead of what a reporter wishes the truth to be.

I hope Mr. Lucas or his son runs for office in the future.

Hey! You guys are heroes, you are winning this war on terror... even if the lives you save do not appreciate it.

Speaking of ingrates, have you read about Chris Cramer, the CNN guy that OSS rescued from Iranina terrorists?

"Long History Of Hostility Towards Military By CNNi Executive"

www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/

We are so proud of our servicemembers. I teach high school. I leave your blogs on my computer in the classroom. The kids are so inspired by the TRUTH. They are so excited to point out the mush and drivel of msm news.

Our military and the blogs are going to make America a Free Country again.

"To secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity..."

Our prayers are with your son and all of our troops every day. God bless you.

JoeS

Another awesome job by the 10th Mountain Division.
God bless all our warriors!

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November 26, 2010


America@war
[Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit.

That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary.

From their about page:

The Naval Institute shall remain

INDEPENDENT - A non-profit member association, with no government support, that does not lobby for special interests;

NON-PARTISAN - An independent, professional military association with a mission, goals and objectives that transcend political affiliations; and shall encourage

IDEAS - Through its respected journals Proceedings and Naval History, its conferences, its books and its online content, in support of those who serve.

"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation:

The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism.

Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented.

I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are.

"Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result.

Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web...

And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed.

The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down.

*****

But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:

Closing Blogs is nothing new. So many site's owners just give up on their own. They come and go, you know, these MilBloggers do. Like any other sort of blogger. Many post in the lonely down hours far from home, spill their guts for the world, then abandon their spots when the tour of duty is up. They have lives again somewhere in the world, and no need to share the details. So it goes.

Many are truly gone - no site left at all. "The page cannot be found." Other blogs remain, like abandoned defensive positions in shifting desert sands.

Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down.

If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real.

And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale.

We've already made history, it's time to save it.

(More to follow...)




Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) |

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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
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  • MountainDad: Another awesome job by the 10th Mountain Division. God bless read more
  • JoeS: Hey! You guys are heroes, you are winning this war read more
  • Sergio: I hope Mr. Lucas or his son runs for office read more
  • David: What more can one say. Thanks to a dad who read more
  • Ralph Artigliere: Like father, like son. Brave soldiers both. Ralph Artigliere read more
  • submandave: ReutersLovesYOu: There is no fault in reporting what is said read more
  • TallDave: The bias is in not doing the natural, responsible thing read more
  • ReutersLovesYOu: Man, take off the conspiracy hat for a second. I read more
  • Reg Jones: Compared to the NYT Reuters wasn't that far off! 1.Here's read more
  • Pat Rand: Reader John, You raised a fine man. I'm sure proud read more

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The Mudville Gazette is written and produced by Greyhawk, who recently retired from 24 years of active duty in the US military, but will maintain this disclaimer: Unless otherwise credited, the opinions expressed are those of the author, and nothing here is to be taken as representing the official position of or endorsement by the United States Department of Defense or any of its subordinate components.

Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house.

I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email.

Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed.

Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com

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*****

Tending Distant
Fires


Far from hearth and home, watching
Cold alone but not alone
On distant shore and only wanting
Safe return and little more

What tales we'll tell
When that time comes
When tales can be told

When things grim
Seem far away
When other fires go cold

Some distant sunset, vision fading
Memories remain
And tired eyes gaze 'pon folded flags
While distant drums beat their refrain

Saluting fallen friends whose names
And youth will never fade
Here's to those on other shores,
for them live well, the price is paid

- Greyhawk,
Baghdad,
December 2004