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 Greetings! You are reading an article from The Mudville Gazette. To reach the front page, with all the latest news and views, click the logo above or "main" below. Thanks for stopping by! December 27, 2004 Mosul - the shot heard 'round the World?By GreyhawkAs the awareness of blogs continues to rise military members are increasingly taking advantage of the ease of long-distance mass communication to family and friends offered by the web-based medium. Outside of a few mainstream media dinosaurs it should surprise no one that intentionally or incidentally, unfiltered coverage of the war in Iraq is becoming readily available "back home" in near real time. Consider this: a few short days before Christmas 2004 a suicide bomber entered the dining facility (DFAC) at an American military installation in Mosul and detonated his explosives, killing several Americans and Iraqis and wounding many more. I'll spare you my own thoughts on the event itself; several miles and a lot of concertina wire separate me from that spot on the map. And after all, why listen to me when no less than four blogs from GIs who were there (and a fifth with a letter from a GI there) are available to you now? What follows may be a first of it's kind; a round up of observations of a specific event in an ongoing war, posted within hours of its occurrence by troops on the ground in the combat zone. Some of these have been heavily linked throughout the blogosphere, others overlooked by all. I'll excerpt from them, but these brief cuts won't do justice to the authors' efforts. Click through and read them, along with the other posts at their sites. It's literally history in the making. The day began early as I didn't sleep very well last night. Once I was awake I decided not to just lay there and stare at the darkness so I got up, got dressed, shaved and headed into the TOC, the heart of what goes on. In the TOC (Tactical Operations Center) they monitor several different radio nets to keep abreast of what is happening in the area. It's the place to be if you want up to the minute information. When I arrived it was fairly calm. I made small talk with the guys there and sipped that first cup of morning coffee. The day was clear and there was very little going on, or so it seemed. A very short while later we received the initial reports. He goes on to describe the events of the day, in detail, from a very close perspective. A GI tells the tale of two Iraqi Soldiers who were in the DFAC at the time: Both of them were blown from their seats by the blast, which they described as, "very powerful, lots of noise and heat." The two Iraqi soldiers were both dazed. One of them could only hear a loud ringing sound in his ears. The other couldn't believe his eyes: Every where he looked people were gasping for air or bleeding profusely. Before the two Iraqis lay a helpless American soldier, who staggered across the smoke-filled mess hall at first only to fall on the ground. They couldn't understand a word coming out of the American's mouth. They only saw the blood spewing from his leg. Such should be noted along with every statement of the obvious: some Iraqis are against us, and they can don uniforms too. It's also worth remembering that among the first American casualties of the war in Iraq were those caused by an American soldier rolling live grenades into the tents of his fellow GI's. The Docs at Mosul pick up where the Chaplain leaves off: I completely lost track of time, so I am not sure when we finally got most of the return to duty patients out, but I am guessing it was around 1800. Then it was time to start taking care of the patients on the wards. More washouts, more CT's, and more chest tubes. It was not until around 2330 that we could actually sit back, catch our breath, and relax. There was not one person in our CSH that did not work their butts of today. The team work and overall job performance were second to none. As the docs sat around and tried to analyze what had just occurred we were all shocked. We could not believe what we had just been through. But even more important, we could not believe the way the CSH handled this situation which completely overwhelmed our system. By definition a mass casualty situation is when the number of patients and their injuries exceed the available resources . This was the mass casualty of all mass casualties. The story they tell is incredible; along with the courage and fortitude of the American and Iraqi troops at the scene, the skilled medical teams and technology at their disposal saved more than a few lives this grim day. Afterward they were interviewed by a military public affairs rep, who tried her best to get their story told: Coincidentally, she reports that she sent this out to almost 1200 newspapers. She only heard back from a few... To me, THIS is news. Based on the overwhelming number of emails I have received, there are a lot of people out there who are interested in reading about this stuff much more often than reading about the daily reports of the numbers killed or wounded. Ultimately a very few outlets would bother. The aftermath of the attack, from yet another GI on the scene: Sitting in our chow hall this morning, I couldn't help but look at it in another light. I saw the broken bottles of steak sauce mixed with puddles of blood on the floor, the food still steaming on the steam table, littered with rubble from the blast and the absolute chaos that the scene was, even when I got there after everyone had left. One wonders where the heroes of Mosul had their Christmas dinner this year. And how's morale in the aftermath? Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld visits the wounded; within hours a stateside blog has an email from a doctor there describing the scene as he approached the bedside of a wounded GI (hat tip Instapundit): That is when I, without any thought, piped in with "Sir, you can talk to him, he's awake." He told the soldier, named Rob, how proud he was of his service. The soldier was in a bit of disbelief, because he couldn't see with one eye patched and the other swollen shut. He said he wanted to talk to Rumsfeld. That's when I said "He's standing right to your left, Rob, that's his voice you hear. You can talk to him." The kid was nervous at that point, but sputtered out how honored he was to talk to him. Mr. Rumsfeld replied, "No, it's an honor for me to talk to you." Later the secretary takes Q and A from the troops. CNN played it live on their Daybreak program, but could not have known what was coming. Much of the talk swirls around stop loss issues - often called a "back door draft" by those with little understanding of the seriousness of the military's business - when suddenly another topic arises. As you read it, bear in mind this question is asked by a soldier immediately following a horrific attack. Given the opportunity to address the SecDef, this is what was on his mind: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, how do we win the war in the media? It seems like that is the place where we're getting beat up more than anybody else. I've been here -- this is my third tour over here, and we have done some amazing things. And it seems like the enemy's Web sites and everything else are all over the media, and they love it. But the thing is, is everything we do good, no matter if it's helping a little kid or building a new school, the public affairs sends out the message, but the media doesn't pick up on it. How do we win the propaganda war? CNN reporters were not prepared for this, and responded accordingly (read carefully the statements I've put in bold highlight below, in light of the Mosul events): COSTELLO: Karl, I wanted to ask you about a question a soldier posed to the defense secretary that blamed the media for not talking about the positive things that happen in the country. Tell us about that. And I guess I sort of want you to stand up for yourself, because it's so dangerous to travel in Iraq. It's tough to get to those good stories, isn't it? You can decide if he answered the question - or what the question was. Or if he was aware of current events in Iraq at all. Worth noting, the officer that next got the opportunity to speak returned to the stop loss issue, offering the perspective of a man who'd been in country for a long time already; who'd seen the horror first hand. This from a man apparently planning his exit from the military, thus not seeking personal gain: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, I just have a comment as an officer who is likely going to come under that stop-loss during his time here. I just want to say that there are people who understand the importance of keeping the integrity of a unit, and the stabilization of units is also a very good thing. And I wanted to thank you for that (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we do understand that sacrifice comes with us all. Is any of this earth shattering? No; it's just an inevitable step further on the road we once called the "information superhighway". I can't speak to the attention the press in the US gave the Mosul bombing. From what I saw on CNN it seemed that once the hopes thay had for decrying the lack of "armored chow halls" were extinguished by the revelation that the event was the work of a suicide bomber they rather quickly lost interest. Certainly after the embarrassment of CNN the visit from the Secretary of Defense was overlooked by most news sources, as Charles Johnson at Little Green Footballs was able to find only this brief mention from Reuters: MOSUL (Reuters) - U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Friday took a delighted dig at the media after troops he was visiting in Iraq complained their good works were ignored by the press while disasters grabbed the headlines. But those in the media, previously the sole source for reporting on events and their impacts on the troops in a combat zone, should take note: there are other voices everywhere now. Your ignoring (or worse, twisting) of the scenes like this one will not make them vanish down the "memory hole". Here; Rummy at a later appearance at Camp Victory, Baghdad, as 'reported' by Rich at Beef always Wins: As part of his surprise (to the press at least) visit to Iraq, the Secretary of Defense stopped by Camp Victory, Baghdad this evening. A big deal? No. Should it be on the front page of the NY Times? Depends - what else happened that day? But it should serve as a wake up call to those who do control the front pages of newspapers everywhere. Last year the Mudville Christmas list included about a half dozen blogs by soldiers and/or spouses overseas (including yours truly). This year we listed 25 in combat zones alone - again I'm one of them. (and I know we missed at least that many too). For most of these MilBloggers a trip home is in the near future, but certainly others will come to pick up the torch. So as much as I'd prefer having zero blogs reporting from combat zones at Christmas or at any other time, I've no doubt that if needed they'll be here. So back to the question, yes, how can we win the war on the media? :) Keep shooting boys, keep shooting. And this is a battle that folks on the homefront can fight too. My thanks to so many of you who have over the past year. I think we're starting to see the tide turn, and that the Secretary is well aware of what forces are turning it. Look for increasing questions on the credibility of blogs (or false fears about the security of MilBlogs) from the mainstream media as evidence I'm right. Won't matter though, will it? Here's to victory. Posted by Greyhawk / December 27, 2004 2:00 PM | Permalink 20 TrackBacksBlackfive has a thought provoking post on the media and good news stories. He notes: As for positive media stories, I've seen local Chicago TV stations try a "nice story" segment every night and then have to stop it because... Read More Two blog posts found through Mudville Gazette. More Stuff you will not see in Old Media. Read More It is with a general sense of awe -- and perhaps a thimble-full of wistfulness for the good old days -- that we watch the mainstream media continue to self-destruct.... the latest, most devastating salvos -- all raining down on the MSM in the last fe... Read More By now it should be no secret to anyone that many in the mainstream media are not even attempting fair or balanced coverage of events in Iraq. But thanks to the Blogosphere, the truth continues to be told and heard.... Read More Mudville Gazette has a fantastic roundup of milbloggers and others writing about the homicide bombing in Mosul earlier this week. Read More We can only hope that the American warrior can stay safe in this horrible war and make it home to his/her family. Read More The Mudville Gazette blog brings a round-up of first-person accounts of the bombing of the mess hall in Mosul last week. I found the first blog linked, from a chaplain Read More The Roth Report for Monday, December 27, 2004: Death Toll 21,000+... "Gmail need not apply": Motorcycle company offers one terabyte email accounts... "Yush" flashes the "V"... "Yush" wins... Norwegian golf tourne... Read More Mudville Gazette has an interesting and link filled post from Iraq on the Mosul attack and other items of interest. It is a reminder that if you are depending on the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN and the like... Read More ....the anger I feel toward the American press tonight. I came to this article at Mudville Gazette via one of Cori Dauber's articles. Cori points out that the Internet is more and more the source for not only up-to-date on-the-scene information but a... Read More Military personnel in Mosul speak out. Read More The truth will always be a massive force - either of attraction or repulsion. The MSM's stranglehold on mass communication has long allowed them to control what information is available to the public, thus manipulating many people's perception of the... Read More The Mudville Gazette has two media posts you need to read. The first is a story on Rumsfeld in Iraq that looks at how hard the Old Media had to work to ignore the question of the day, and the... Read More The death toll from the tsunamis generated by a giant earthquake in the Indian Ocean has reached a staggering 44,000. Japan Has pledged money and sent three Navy ships to the area to aid in relief efforts. In addition to Read More A while back I started the Little Right Wing Circle Jerk, which is founded on two principles: 1) Information found on blogs is at least as accurate as information found in the mainstream media 2) It's morally wrong to hijack... Read More With the new year, every big-time media outlet seems compelled to produce their own who’s-hot-who’s-not list. Here, for instance, is the WaPo’s. Given that paper’s standing as Queen of the Beltway—beating out the NYT by di... Read More With the new year, every big-time media outlet seems compelled to float its own who’s-hot-who’s-not list. Here, for instance, is the WaPo’s. Given that paper’s standing as Queen of the Beltway—beating out the NYT by dint o... Read More With the new year, every big-time media outlet seems compelled to float its own who’s-hot-who’s-not list. Here, for instance, is the WaPo’s. Given that paper’s standing as Queen of the Beltway—beating out the NYT by dint o... Read More In what may be the Read More 39 Comments |
November 26, 2010America@war [Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit. That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary. From their about page:
"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation: The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism. Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented. I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are. "Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result. Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web... And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed. The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down. But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:
Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down. If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real. And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale. We've already made history, it's time to save it. (More to follow...) Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink |
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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
 
 
 Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house. I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email. Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed. Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com  Tending Distant Far from hearth and home, watching What tales we'll tell When things grim Some distant sunset, vision fading Saluting fallen friends whose names - Greyhawk, Baghdad, December 2004 |
thanks to all of your for everything. what would work to get the media to do some fair reporting - letters, ignoring their news programs? i don't bother with the msm news shows because of the obvious bias, just go with the blogs and fox news. otherwise i start talking and yelling back to the tv "news" shows.
i will go along with any reasonable suggestions to help straighten them out.
Many, many thanks.
I feel a positive lump in my chest
thinking about how dangerous those Bagdad
alleys are for our fearless press.
Fortunately their nasty little mouths
just run on and on.
Great roundup. It takes time but the messages are getting out.
Yeah.
I really believe that a young soldier caught in the blast who had his hand torn off and is missing an eye would say:
"Mr. Rumsfeld, I want you to know, that you are doing a fantastic job. I know that you are taking a lot of heat for the problems with getting armor for vehicles. I want you to know that things are vastly improved. Our vehicles are great, and I have never searched through junk piles for scrap metal."
Love all the lump-in-throat stuff too.
I didn't realise this was a Michael Bay movie.
I see stuff like that all the time. I'd rather not see it ever, but such is life.
You can't believe this "greatamericanmythmachine" because these are better human beings than you are. Men who are not obsessed with themselves, but with the love of their country and respect for their superior officers.
Greyhawk, some people cannot be convinced because they've never understood esprit d'corps.
Great post. I hope troops continue to have adequate internet access to keep up the reporting. Maybe they'll get some WiFi for you and you can blog while lying on your cot!
Thanks for providing this information. A lot of people voted against the media in November because the blogs showed how untrustworthy the MSM is. Keep blogging and telling the truth. The media is discredited more every day. Americans will find more and more ways to show the media how displeased they are with its performance.
Thank you.
Given the qualifications of the last 3 Medal of Freedom winners, it would not surprise me if the Mosual base commander gets the next one.
Bring the troops home, and let the Iraqis determine their own future.
God bless and keep you.
Our military and our nation will never get fair treatment from the media as long as journalism students learn under the likes of Robert Jensen at the University of Texas. Jensen hates America, loves anarchy and hates our democracy. Go to his web site and you will understand why any good we do will never be reported because journalists usually must first learn to hate America more than anything else.
Greetings - I appreciate your blog and all the others. The only truth is coming from this source. I think Mr. Rumsfeld is a good man, trying very hard to make it right for our troops and our Country. He deserves and needs our support and I'm happy to see he has a lot of support, especially from his boss, President Bush. Keep up the good work and thank you for what you do. Ron Henderson, Greenwood, MO
Appreciate the comments all, but Dave's concise statement above has made me realize I must quit blogging now forever, desert and move to Canada.
Thank you for your Blog. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE keep up the good work and continue to tell the real story of our troops.
Roger Simon said "The rest of us have to continue to build our own media and expand on them." in a recent post on the MSM. Right on!
The MSM reminds me of a manager of a suspender factory decrying how belts will never catch on because they cut off circulation.
Beware of any proposed limitations on the Internet or Blogging.
Greyhawk, great work and thank you for your service to the country!
You keep doing what you're doing and we'll keep supporting you. But I'm fully in favor of sending Dave to Canada (one-way ticket only). And everyone else like him.
And Marvin is right - a lot of us voted against the MSM as well as for W and freedom.
Greyhawk,
Don't pack it in on Dave's account! (as if! LOL) Maybe Chris can talk some sense into him, and if she can't, well - Trolls like him just usually slide on by in an effort to annoy as many working people as possible, but the rest of us will always be here. Check Six!
The real issue here is our blindness to the nature of our enemy. He is politically, militarily, numerically, and technologically inferior to us to several degrees of order, yet he is able to dig under a fence, walk right into a canteen and blow up our soldiers at will.
We have known the treachery of our enemy for some time: the duplicitous waving of white flags of surrender; the use of mosques as a protection against our fire; the hostage-taking, extortion and beheading of non-combatants. We have no reason to expect him to conform to anything resembling what we consider "fighting fair." Nor should we. He is not a national army. He is not a Geneva Convention signatory. He does not value human life as we do. He does not believe in the basic freedoms we are striving to bring to his people.
We have not heeded the ancient military dictum "know thy enemy." A change must come in our mindset. We are still the British redcoats, marching with great predictable precision, while our enemy is conducting a guerilla war that ignores our rules of honorable soldering and exploits the weaknesses we’re broadcasting. And that is what got those soldiers killed: we expected our enemy to act like soldiers. The kind of soldiers we are.
We must become more suspicious. We must think like our enemy, and open our minds to the new realities of this struggle. We must consider the unthinkable thinkable. We must become as dangerous as he.
I’m not suggesting that we lose our moral restraint; it is what makes our military a wonder in the modern world. But we must rethink who and how lethal our enemy actually is, and begin to make the necessary adaptations in our evaluations and tactics. We can upgrade all the Humvees we want, but as long as we consider it unthinkable that our enemy would be so treacherous as to sneak onto our base and blow up both us and himself, we will continue to sacrifice soldiers needlessly.
Don’t trust them to play fair. Don’t trust them to be decent. Don’t trust them to display a value for human life, even their own. Don’t trust them. Don’t trust them. Be vigilant. Be crafty. Be dangerous. Because they certainly are.
As a Canadian with dual citizenship who worked in Hollywood, who voted for Pres Bush and wholeheartedly supports this war...PLEASE do NOT send Dave to Canada. We don't need anymore of his kind here. However Greyhawk..you are welcome anytime! Drinks on me!!!
I support the troups by "adopting" soldiers and marines thru many organizations that allow me to do that..I send them emails, letters, cards, carepackages, weekly...Im up to 21 marines and soldiers now...and I have room for many more in my heart. I commented in my live journal and on several message boards about the frustation that was echoed in that soldiers question: How are we going to win the PR battle?
I write daily about the achievements in Iraq and Afghanistan stories that these soldiers share with me in their letters and emails...and I make sure I tell everyone I know...I yell it from the rooftops, I share it while in line at Starbucks, and I will not stop telling ppl what the media hasnt the balls to report. The truth!
Its not all death and destruction.
The news doesn’t report all the great work our troups are doing for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan and all the positive accomplishments achieved. They confront the evil that wants to thwart and usurp peace stability and democracy in Iraq in many ways and they are planting the seeds of democracy by restoring buildings, rebuilding and reopening schools, rebuilding the infrastructure, training the Iraqi police force, and by confronting the insurgents in battle when necessary.
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the recognition that there is something more important that fear. These young men and women have recognized that, and it’s made me appreciate, respect, and admire the calling they have chosen to accept. And they accept it with Honor, Perseverance, Spirit and Heart.
God Bless Them All!
Keep up the great Blogging Greyhawk!
Question for Dave,
If the Americans leave as we did in 'Nam and the results in Iraq are no worse than Vietnam/Cambodia (2-3 million murdered) will it be OK with you Dave?
I do understand your position (I think) - they are only wogs. Not our kind after all.
MoFo.
--==--
And to all the Mud Marines from a one time Naval Nuc (the all time mil pointy heads)
Semper Fi Mac.
And to all the honorary Marines of the Army, Navy, and Air Force.
Semper Fi to you too!
What I'd like to know: Are the "Love or Leave It" types on this blog holdovers from the previous quagmire - Vietnam - or newly minted?
Another question: what democratically-led country has ever defeated an entrenched insurgency movement? Without resorting to "kill 'em all, and let God sort 'em out later" tactics?
Consider Algeria. The French commander had a list drawn up of the leadership of the insurgency. When an insurgent whose name was on the list was killed, the commander drew a line through the name. Eventually, all the names were crossed out.
I don't believe most French military officers consider Algeria a shining victory.
And then the Algerians had the temerity to elect a Muslim government whose stated aim was to stop any further elections.
George Bush has a chart of AQ leaders that was drawn up by the CIA. He's crossing out names...
How would you like to go through life like Dave?
A victim since birth, never appreciated for anything he ever did, never been proud to be part of a winning team, learned that whining and moaning were the best way to get his parent's attention.
Don't disparage him, feel sorry for him. He has nothing to look forward to except to escape to Canada where he can comiserate with other losers. His entire future is predicated on the hope that somehow this country will fail in its quest to spread freedom and democracy. Dave, you guys had your shot with John Kerry and Walter Cronkite 35 years ago. Your snuffling and teary eyes don't play anymore. Do yourself a favor, get a life, find something that makes you proud to be an American, or at least makes you proud to be a human being, and give it all you've got. You may get lucky!
Otherwise, go to Canada, or better yet Cuba. They have everything you'll need to make your life a glittering story. Write soon. Regards
Gee, Ed. I'm beginning to think you don't like me.
Just how many Iraqi non-combatants do we have to kill or maim to deliver the benefits of democracy?
You didn't think anybody but the chorus was listening when Bush, Jr made his "bring 'em on!" remark?
Just think, Ed. After our glorius victory in Iraq (lots more Freedom Medals) there's Iran, and then on to N. Korea. And those pointy-headed Venezuelans are on the list. But they're after Fidel - who had the good sense to announce a new oil find off his coast. The fun will never end.
Onward Christian soldiers!
If the Americans leave as we did in 'Nam and the results in Iraq are no worse than Vietnam/Cambodia (2-3 million murdered) will it be OK with you Dave?
That's not important to Dave. All that is important to him is screeching quagmire enough times to make it true.
Odd, Viet Nam's "entrenched" insurgency kind of got shredded in '68, forcing the use of NVA troops in their place. So I guess when Revolutionary Guard troops start showing up in Iraq you might have a leg to stand on, Dave.
Otherwise, keep whining if you wish. People far better than you will do their best despite your desire to see them fail.
Dave et alia,
Americans dont kill noncombatants, that is a problem in your reasoning. TERRORISTS and THUGS of the Islamofascist variety do that as a MATTER OF POLICY.
Americans inadvertantly have a few non-combatant deaths, and take great care not to have more.
Have you SEEN North Koreans groaning under the yoke of Communo-Xenophobia? I have, Dave, while serving honorably in ASA!
I appreciate your candor in demonstrating your poverty of thought and shallowness of reason.
Gee Dave,
"Just how many Iraqi non-combatants do we have to kill or maim to deliver the benefits of democracy?"
Name one, Dave. And make sure you can prove the bullet or bomb that killed him or her was an American one, Dave. Not an AK47 bullet. We don't use those. How many times will Americans be blamed for the "random" firing of the guerillas in Iraq? Prove it, Dave. Prove that the 12 yr old killed in an ambush wasn't put up to it by his 50 yr old, 42 inch waistline father. The old man has 12 or 15 sons anyway, so what is one less to him?
Prove that we indiscriminately shoot, Dave. Prove it was an M-16 bullet that killed a child on the street when a car bomb went off. Then maybe I will believe your crap. But until you can prove it, Dave, your position will be as discredited as those who claim that the Oil for Food program starved and killed 5000 Iraiq children a month, Dave. And Saddam never had a choice to buy food and medicine. Only Mercedes Benz's and marble and gold for palaces. Do lies run in your family, Dave? You are taken in so easily by them.
Wish you had two brain cells to rub together.
Subsunk
Why do you presume people are required to die?
Methinks you reveal more about yourself with that question than you might want to.
greyhawk, great post. thanks for leading the way among the milblogs.
"here's to victory" -for sure, and one of these days we'll be able to raise a beer (instead of a near-beer!)
I am saddened to some extent at what I see in America these days. During World War II, a reporter helped kill more than a few American Submariners by bragging in a newspaper how American submarines were slipping easily past anti-submarine attacks made by the enemy. I suspect however, that the reporter guilty of that transgression did not intend for the resuling deaths to occur. Today? I'm not so certain what goes on in the minds of our Newspaper and Television editors. For all we know, there are plenty of stories that the reports *WANT* to report, but can't get it past the person who determines what is or is not worthy of showing.
These days, when I relay something to a family member, I now must say "Interesting if true". Now I know what Robert Heinlein meant when he said there were four ways to tell a lie (read Time Enough for Love someday). One of the four ways is to "tell the truth, but only part of it".
I can only hope that the soldiers of today truly feel they are supported by the people back home - the strangers they don't know, but realize respect them for their sacrifices made for an ideal. God bless you one and all, and may you come home with the least damage neccessary to win this war. Good luck.
Hal
Don't ever forget that fewer people read the old media every day, no one who does read or view it accepts it as gospel and the old media has already begun a transformation in this way: they are spending more and more time reacting to and "debunking" the blogs...which they wouldn't have to do if they still believed in carrying the truth to the people.
The old media isn't even close anymore, and y'all know that even if they were, close only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades. Since journalists have no real-world experience with either horseshoes or hand grenades....and most military folks do...I don't even think we can call the engagement between the military and the press a "contest."
Call it a massacre instead.
Zell Miller's speech won a nationwide popularity contest this year, so don't ever let the small-minded, overfed cowards get you down. They are a shrinking, aging, shrieking minority.
If I could stand up in front of Secretary Rumsfeld, after expressing my sincere thanks for his good work and the sacrifices of our troops, this would be my question:
Is it true as reported that our troops are using DU (depleted uranium) munitions?
According to the limited amount of Google research I've done, these tank-piercing shells are radioactive. In the past two years, eight Iraqi babies delivered in Baghdad hospitals were born with NO EYES. This is far above the amount one would expect under normal circumstances. Apparently, fathers of these deformed children were exposed to spent DU casings. One can only imagine what side-effects handling these shells is having on our own troops.
In-light of the fact that the United Nations
has outlawed DU weapons, classifying them as WMD, why are these still in our arsenal? Also, reports are that Napalm is being used by our troops. Is this true? Am I wrong to believe that Napalm also has serious side-effects on humans?
If we want to win the "war in the media," then these are the kinds of tough questions that need answering. I don't know the answers, just asking the questions. Maybe one of the readers of this thread has expertise and first-hand knowledge of what's happening with DU/Napalm use in Iraq?
Respectfully,
a proud Uncle of an soon-to-be U.S. Army 2nd Lt.
Dids you know the word 'gullible' is not found in any dictionary of the English language? It's true.
Diddywiddler, that's not a reponse; that's a side-step. Here's one link that talks about the DU issue:
http://www.sundayherald.com/32522
Google it under the words "depleted uranium" and you'll find lots more. There's enough there on this issue, from various sources, to raise tough questions that deserve straightfoward answers.
So, I renew my challenge: Anyone reading this thread with expertise and first-hand knowledge of the use of DU/Napalm in Iraq?
"Quagmire?"
We're NOT in a quagmire! This isn't Viet Nam!
Every day more and more Iraqis are moving back to their country. Iraqi soldiers are taking up more of the slack, and doing a good job of it!
We are actually doing great things over there!
I echo that soldier's question:
"Why are we taking such a beating from the press?"
and the idea that the country is too dangerous to go out and find the stories is pure bullcrap!
Keep the faith!
Sgt. B.
Didsbury;
Were you aware that per unit volume, DU is less radioactive than human flesh? Maybe we should outlaw wombs to protect fetuses from radiation!
As for naplam having "serious side effects", it has been known to burn people to death. Really. I think the USA military has actually admitted it. Other than that, it's basically gasoline and therefore much less dangerous long term to human health than the widespread use of internal combustion engines.
I must say, though, that you make me think of some guy who, as he's getting off the Titanic after the iceberg, grills the other passengers on the life boat about splinters.
Dave
You obviously enjoy your freedom to disagree with everyone who has a stake in preserving your freedom.
Do you enjoy your freedom? Then thank a VET!
To Annoying Old Guy -
Titanic and splinters? Let's see if I follow your reasoning. Would the "Titanic" be Iraq under Saddam, and the Coalition forces the "lifeboats"? If so, then your post unravels right away, because in your first paragraph, you say that there's more danger to a unborn child from "womb radiation" than a person exposed to DU. Then you talk about "splinters." Which is it, no danger, or a little? You can't have it both ways.
Here are just some tidbits on DU, as gathered from internet research, including the World Health Organization (WHO)and the Sunday Herald:
1. 67% of the offspring of soldiers who fought in Desert Storm ('91) have had children born to them with birth defects. Other birth defects reported among the Iraqi population and attributed to DU exposure include children born with no eyes.
2. Cancer rates have increased among Iraqis exposed to the air-born dust created by exploded DU shells.
3. Before Gulf War I (1991), the U.S. military did not use DU in its tank armor piercing shells, or other munitions. We got by without it then, why not now?
The State Dept. on its website downplays any cancer risk from DU exposure. The BBC, however, cites a chemist who is very concerned about the side-effects of DU, and anti-DU websites quote experts who have been involved in DU development and production. So which is it, no harm or major harm? Split the difference, to allow for liberal bias and the blind spots of anti-war fanatics, and we're STILL talking something pretty big.
Most Americans believe that our current action in Iraq is morally justifiable. I happen to be one of those Americans. I've seen the photos of the mass graves; I know our troops in Fallujah uncovered torture chambers. No need to trot out those arguments, I'm already convinced. But this war has many fronts, and one is world opinion. Islamic websites with an anti-American agenda quote the scientists on DU, ridiculing our double standard. How many "hearts and minds" are we losing over DU? Every argument we lose is a potential jihadist.
Since you like Titanic analogies, here's one for you: Our boat has a big leak in it. Lots of people are saying: "Look! There's a leak in our boat! We're taking on water! " So what do you do? Do you fix the leak, or do you tell these people to shut up, and club 'em over the head? DU is a gash in our hull, and it's only getting bigger. Let's pray that our leaders will "patch the leak" by gradually phasing out DU
munitions.
Praying for the protection of our troops and for peace-loving Iraqis,
My apologies to GreyHawk for the duplicate posting. I received a "rebuild error" message the first time, and was surprised to see it had posted after all.
Be safe, and have a God-blessed 2005.