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September 30, 2004A mild FiskingByJoe Gandelman, over at A Moderate Voice, has this interesting post up about how Vice President Cheney changed his mind regarding the utility of taking down Saddam in the years intervening between 1992 and 2002. I should take this time to note that Joe also is member of Dean Esmay's stable of writers. Using information from this article in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, he notes that Vice President Cheney is quoted as saying in 1992: And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth?... For the record, I agreed with him then. And I was on active duty as a combat arms soldier. Joe next throws up this quote from Mr. Cheney: All of a sudden you've got a battle you're fighting in a major built-up city, a lot of civilians are around, significant limitations on our ability to use our most effective technologies and techniques.Once we had rounded him up and gotten rid of his government, then the question is what do you put in its place? You know, you then have accepted the responsibility for governing Iraq. Gandelman himself then closes with this: But the guy who made these comments -- Vice President Dick Cheney -- talks differently today. None dare call it a flip-flop because it isn't. The mandate for Desert Storm didn't include going to Baghdad. There wasn't a plan to go to Baghdad. There wasn't an intent to go to Baghdad. The Arab allies weren't going to support going to Baghdad. And we, as a military force, weren't very well prepared to go to Baghdad, because it wasn't what our orders said to do. No one expected (nor would we have planned for) the Iraqis to fold after 45 days of combat, only four of those in direct fire contact. All of a sudden the road to Baghdad was open. Remember how hard it was to keep the Third Infantry and Marines supplied on the March Upcountry in 2003? Same thing would have been a problem for going to Baghdad back in 1991... but THAT WASN'T THE MISSION and no one expected that it would be. Had the mission been to depose Saddam, well, sure, it would have been nice and we probably could have gone on - but everybody was short-term happy with the mission accomplishment and wasn't looking for a new mission - and it would have been a much larger force we were trying to sustain over those distances. As for Saddam being worth the casualties - 9/11 changed that calculus now didn't it? As someone who spent the latter part of his career in the Army involved in reinventing how we trained and what we trained on, I perhaps can offer some insight. As an Observer/Controller at the National Training Center prior to Desert Storm, we trained brigades to fight conventional fights in open terrain against conventional enemies. And we did it well. And when we fought the Iraqi Army in a conventional fight in open terrain we turned that Army into mush and junk. Granted, they were poorly led and poorly trained - but in those few places where we did run up against marginally well-led forces, such as 73 Easting, it was still no contest. (N.B. - the 73 Easting link takes a long time to load, but the text is there and you can start reading - and what's the irony of my linking to a paper written by the tanker who stole my first wife away - though in the final analysis, he did me a favor!) But in examining the war and it's aftermath, combined with the collapse of the Soviet Union, we saw that the near-to-mid term threat environment was changing, and we needed to change with it. "Blackhawk Down" in Mogadishu (really the whole Somalia deployment) really brought home that we didn't have a doctrine for, nor did we adequately train for, urban combat - which was looking to be more and more likely the kind of fight we'd find ourselves in. No soldier likes city fighting. It's even more messy, chaotic, and dangerous than close-quarters direct-fire combat in open terrain. It's a knife fight that tends to wipe away a whole lot of conventional military tech advantages. In other words, for a mech army, it's an asymetric environment. We also ran into the bogeyman of Military Government issues, i.e., if you take it, you're responsible for it - but that's a much harder nut to crack and we're busy learning by doing now. Which would be true of any Army trying to do what we're doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. So, with the Marines leading the way, with visions of Hue in their minds, we started building MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) training sites, started thinking hard about how to bring our tech strengths to bear on the problem while still keeping our large-scale combat capability, and how to train the individual soldier for the new challenges. Much money, sweat, time was spent reinventing urban combat skills and not just dusting off the old WWII/Korea era TTPs (Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures). And we started leavening in the lessons we were learning from the Peacekeeping and Enforcement operations in the Balkans - where it became very obvious that the junior leaders, the Company Commanders and below, were really key to success. They had to be soldier-diplomats... and we were training near pure warriors up to Desert Storm. The "Strategic Corporal", where a young man at a checkpoint, 19 years old and an E4 (junior enlisted) could find himself confronted with a situation that could turn into an International Incident because Christiane Amanpour was there with a camera crew - and there was no time to call higher and ask for an answer. The Corporal had to act - and make a good decision right then and there. Training had to be adjusted to include that kind of situation. With the Joint Readiness Training Center leading the way - role players were introduced into training, actors who would portray all the 'white' elements on the battlefield that soldiers would have to deal with. Mayors, bus drivers, people being evacuated who wanted to bring their dogs with them - and who would get belligerent when the soldier solved the problem by shooting the dog (yes, we put laser engagement system harnesses on dogs so they could become casualties - shooting the dog was not usually the 'best' answer, either). And there is a role-player media person there to report it. And faux-CNN broadcasts are done, and real journalists are brought in to conduct interviews, so senior people can learn how to deal with real journalists - and the effects of all those actions are fed back into the training, so that the 'locals' may well become more hostile. Or they might become very cooperative. With the change in the battlespace encountered in Afghanistan, the National Training Center in California changed dramatically. The old mines out there were made safe and modified and reopened as cave complexes. Villages dot a once-empty landscape. Actors portray the locals - we even brought in expat Iraqis to help train the role-players. Units have to conduct long convoy movements - and deal with IEDs, ambushes, etc. They have to conduct major military operations in one area while simultaneously conducting SASO (Stability and Security Operations) in the region and move their logistics along routes that might find them having to fight their way through... and the fighters blend back into the local population. In other words, they have to fight the Three Block War. We've re-learned that while any echelon can lose a war - they are won by companies. And Company Leaders are crucial to combat and SASO success. I've put a Wall Street Journal article in the extended post that illustrates just what I'm talking about. One of the finest and most compassionate Armies to march on this planet wears an American flag on it's collective shoulder. So yes, Joe, something changed in the 10 years that intervened. The world didn't get more dangerous, we just learned the hard way that it was dangerous - something our geography had shielded us from. And the US military was well on it's way to learning how to fight the fight that it didn't want to fight in 1991 - and didn't want to fight in 2003, but found itself with no choice. (I should note that I know OIF was an 'optional' war at the policy level - what I mean here is that no army with a collective brain *wants* to fight in a city!) So no, I don't see it as a flip-flop. But given how long it just took me to explain why it isn't - do you really wonder why Cheney hasn't bothered? Would the MSM take the time? Especially the visual component, vice the written? Shoot - how many of my readers got this far? Hat tip: Jack at Random Fate for the pointer to Joe's piece. By GREG JAFFE Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL September 22, 2004; Page A1 Posted by / September 30, 2004 5:38 PM | Permalink 3 Comments |
November 18, 2009Dawn Patrol 11/18/2009 [Mrs Greyhawk]
Welcome to the Dawn Patrol, our daily roundup of information on the War on Terror and other topics - from the MilBlogs and various sources around the world. If you're a blogger, you can join the conversation. If you link to any of these stories, add a link to the Dawn Patrol too and your trackback will be added to the list. Hat Tips to the Dawn Patrol are greatly appreciated.Refresh for updates.
AFGHANISTAN/PAKISTANBoondoggle -- [3rd Time, New Country - in Afghanistan] Clinton in Kabul for Karzai's inauguration -- [Foreign Policy - AfPak] The war of leaks -- [Foreign Policy - AfPak] Ridding Afghanistan of Corruption Will Be No Easy Task -- [Los Angeles Times] Afghan Minister Accused of Taking Bribe -- [Washington Post] Vision for Victory, Part I -- [Washington Times] U.S. Turns to Local Guns-for-Hire to Guard Afghan Outpost -- [Danger Room - Noah Shachtman] NATO Chief Confident Afghanistan Will Have More Troops -- [Voice of America] Germany to extend Afghanistan mission another year -- [AP] Pakistani Successes May Sway US Troop Decision -- [New York Times] Where are Taliban and al Qaeda commanders, US media asks Pak -- [Daily News & Analysis] Pakistani Army Shows Off Captured Taliban Posts -- [Washington Post] IRAQIraqi Kurds Warn of Election Boycott in Dispute Over Seats - [Washington Post] US has time to reconsider Iraq drawdown plan-Odierno -- [Reuters] A few words from medics for the 41st Brigade -- [The Oregonian] Goodbye to Iraq, and thanks -- [The Oregonian] U.S. AND OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLDUS, China in Strained Diplomatic Embrace -- [Wall Street Journal] Obama: 'We've restored America's standing' -- [CNN] Somali Pirates : Maersk Alabama Attacked, Fights Back -- [Eagle Speak] Iranian COS Warns Russia: Your Security Is Tied To Ours -- [Memri Blog]
WAR ON TERROR /TERRORISMSuspected Fort Hood Shooter Believed to Be Self-Radicalized -- [Wall Street Journal] Guantánamo Won't Close by January, Obama Says -- [NY Times] SUPPORTING THE TROOPS...OR NOTNo Man Left Behind -- [Knottie's Niche] LTC Tim Karcher Update -- [Soldiers' Angels Germany] Support SA while Christmas shopping this year! -- [Soldiers' Angels Germany] Trees for Troops: Helping Military Families -- [AdAge.com] FOX 5 Special: I-Team VA Loans -- [FOX News] A FOX 5 I-Team investigation uncovered allegations of a nationwide scheme by banks and mortgage companies to defraud U.S. military veterans. The scheme, spelled out in court documents, claims banks are overcharging veterans on home refinancing loans. The question raised in a racketeering and class action law suit is how many of those loans involved banks defrauding U.S. military veterans. MILITARYMuslim discrimination in the U.S. military. Not. -- [Castra Praetoria] Time to revisit firearms policies on military posts -- [Atlanta Journal Constitution] Army's Record Suicide Rate 'Horrible,' General Says -- [Washington Post]
WELCOME HOMEVeterans' descendants welcome troops home to Fort Campbell -- [Clarksville Leaf Chronicle] 'Greywolf' Among First CAV Troops to Return Home -- [DVIDS] THE MEDIAWhere are Taliban and al Qaeda commanders, US media asks Pak -- [Daily News & Analysis] Army officials said that they have killed as many as 550 Taliban militants a month after the military began its campaign into the lawless territory, yet they acknowledge that hundreds, perhaps thousands more have melted away.
POLITICSRepublicans Criticize Obama's Call to Delay Hill Inquiries on Fort Hood -- [Washington Post] HUMOR / SATIRE
Iraq, Afghanistan, War, Terrorism, Military, Politics, Media, MilBlogs, dawn patrol Mudville
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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
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I applaud your outstanding piece. Your insight and perspective are what's missing from all the usual pundits' attempts to explain the evolution that has happened since '91. I thank you and I salute you! (And nice work with Ms. Cocco, too!)
Rich - thank you for the kind words... but I only wrote the bit about training for war... Greyhawk did the slapping of Ms. Cocco!
Whew! Took some time to read through, but worth it. Adapt and overcome.