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 Greetings! You are reading an article from The Mudville Gazette. To reach the front page, with all the latest news and views, click the logo above or "main" below. Thanks for stopping by! August 20, 2004 Across the Great DivideBy GreyhawkIn a telling moment during John Kerry's speech to the VFW in Cincinnati his voice cracked slightly, a hint of desperation creeping in, as he referenced the days of his youth, spent denigrating his fellow veterans and the battles they fought. The gist of his comments? "Hey - it wasn't my fault that the times were controversial." That's not a direct quote. The copy of the speech available on the Kerry website does not include the reference. The Cleveland Plain Dealer has an explanation: Kerry said he was proud of his service in the Navy and of his efforts to end the Vietnam conflict.Sure - I fanned the flames, and yes, that was me with the gas can - but I didn't light the fire! Of course, no one ever accused him of starting anything - opportunists by nature merely take advantage of existing situations. But Kerry's quest for advantage rarely veers from a careful script. Assuming the moment was spontaneous, what led to the near confession/ non-apology? Might it be the view from the lectern? A handful of his fellow Vietnam vets got up and walked out.
The caption for this photo notes "War veterans Jere Hill, middle, from Warham, Mass., and Robert Gibson, right, from Lexington, Ky., stand with their backs turned during Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's speech... Kerry received a polite if not overwhelmingly positive reaction from the VFW. But there was a clear divide, with scores of veterans sittings with their arms folded while others clapped." Hearing problems amongst the aging vets may have contributed to the mixed response. Those applauding politely probably heard this: "The sacrifices that you have made on the battlefield are well known. But what is not as well known is how hard we have fought after we returned from service to keep faith with our fellow soldiers."While those with folded arms heard this: "They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."And doubtless the crowd was also divided by what he read about them vs what he wrote about them. "Thank you. I am proud to be a lifetime member of this organization and grateful for your continued deep commitment to veterans and to the defense and security of our nation. For more than 100 years now, you have had many distinguished veterans come before you – some Republican, some Democrat, some presidents. But as a fellow veteran, I can proudly say that there is one title that is more important than all, and that is patriot. You have all earned that title and I am proud to stand with you today."And here's what he wrote about them: "And so a New Soldier has returned to America, to a nation torn apart by the killing we were asked to do. But, unlike veterans of other wars and some of this one, the New Soldier does not accept the old myths.But enough about the past! It's time to move on, so here's a final quote from the VFW speech: After September 11th, I am proud that all our people rallied to the President’s call for unity to meet the danger. There were no Democrats, there were no Republicans there were only Americans.No, it didn't - but most likely that's not the Senator's fault either. Posted by Greyhawk / August 20, 2004 8:27 AM | Permalink 3 TrackBacksI feel really sorry for these VFW guys. They feel so absolutely betrayed by John Kerry. Forget the Purple Hearts; Kerry came home and denounced his brothers in arms. I can't even imagine how it must feel to be a... Read More Vets on Kerry: Cheers or Jeers? -- John Kerry, who by the way served in Vietnam, gave a speech yesterday to the Veterans of Foreign Wars... [Originally posted 20040820 2:33 AM. I'm bumping this to the top so you don't miss Greyhawk's article.] Read More "Greyhawk" of Mudville Gazette provides helpful translations for the aging vets with hearing difficulties at the Cincinnati VFW post, who may have misunderstood portions of Senator Kerry's speech to them earlier this week.... Read More 23 Comments |
November 26, 2010America@war [Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit. That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary. From their about page:
"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation: The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism. Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented. I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are. "Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result. Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web... And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed. The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down. But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:
Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down. If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real. And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale. We've already made history, it's time to save it. (More to follow...) Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink |
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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
 
 
 Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house. I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email. Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed. Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com  Tending Distant Far from hearth and home, watching What tales we'll tell When things grim Some distant sunset, vision fading Saluting fallen friends whose names - Greyhawk, Baghdad, December 2004 |
You can go here for Kerry's speech at the VFW convention in it's entirety:
http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/08/18/kerry.html
you're welcome dear
Second SwiftBoatVet ad:
http://a1281.v125028.c12502.g.vm.akamaistream.net/7/1281/12502/v0001/eaglepub.download.akamai.com/12502/sellout.wmv
The vet I listen to is Rassman, the man Kerry saved. The Swiftboat Vet author is a documented liar, and that ad is a lie (they didn't serve with Kerry).
The choice is between Kerry, a decorated war hero in Vietnam, and Bush, drunk and avoiding combat in Texas.
I agree. Any vet who doesn't support Kerry is a stinking, gutless liar.
gotyrback, why do you think Rassman is telling the truth, when the commanders of the other boats are telling a different story? Why pick one over the other 4? By his own account, Rassman spent most of the time underwater. How can he tell the difference between fire from the shore and fire coming from the boats (SOP in case it was an attack)? Someone blown off of a deck and swimming until being picked up is a poor observer. Try this the next time you’re in a public pool, while dog-paddling and diving in the water, keep track of the count and colors of vehicles passing by on the street. Now, imaging doing that in full gear and boots after you were unexpectedly shoved into the water.
How do you explain the total lack of damage for all of the boats that responded when PCF-3 hit the mine? Or, are you saying that the VC were so inept that they repeatedly missed?
This is just one more example of Kerry's history of exaggerating (to be kind) or faking (to be closer to the truth) his military experience.
I suppose Kerry could used his famous line at the meeting, "I actually fought against North Viet Nam before I fought for it."
I was no hero during 'Nam. I just did my duty the best way I could, just like most of us did. Kerry insulted all of us during his '71 appearance before congress.
I haven't seen anything to change my low opinion of him in the years since.
I Agree!-
I don't blame you for using a nom de plume. You've just pissed off several hundred thousand gun-owning veterans.
gotyrback- what's your definition of "served with"?
Hey gotyrback... click on the link: or this URL for some important thoughts on "served with" and what it means.
Looney Liberal Left, indeed.
http://peidev.com/peimain/graphics/Washington.jpg
gotyrback
This kind of argument would be easier to believe if it were not for the fact that SBVT includes a couple hundred men, 70 or so of whom also have Purple Hearts. And SBVT includes eyewitnesses who were at all the battles.
Kerry really does not have many people on his side numerically.
But good luck with that.
"and that ad is a lie (they didn't serve with Kerry)."
Not surprisingly, the party whose leader famously insisted on the narrowest of meanings of the word "is" now insists on narrowing the meaning of the word "with."
The members of Kerry's crews served "with" him. So did the members of his flotilla. Crews of boats that operate in close formation, and go back at night to sleep in the same building or ship, serve "with" each other by any fair definition.
Pathetic pedantry, that's what it is. Since ad hominem attacks and hairsplitting semantics are the least effective evidence for any proposition, it's generally fair to assume that when someone resorts to these things, they're all he's got.
I think an Admiral Boorda response to this situation would be a little extreme for Kerry, but a public apology for his embellishments is Kerry's only honorable option.
"I agree. Any vet who doesn't support Kerry is a stinking, gutless liar."
Name-calling. Heh.
Well, when the balance of testimony is not on your side, that's the only "argument" that you have left.
Additionally, with the polls showing that a majority of vets favor GWBush, you end up calling a majority of American Veterans "stinking, gutless, liars". Do you really want to do that? Will those sentiments win them for Kerry? Not likely. It will drive them to Bush, or drive them to stay home on November 2nd.
---Tom Nally, New Orleans
Shame on me.
I didn't get the insult til about '80. In '71 it seemed sensible. And from the bottom of my heart I want to say how sorry I am. I won't be fooled again.
Simon - Tonkin Bay Yacht Club '66
What is the War Hero Afraid of?
Form 180. Release ALL the records.
Kerry backers are reduced to name-calling and asserting new lies about the integrity of the 30-to-1 contemporary associates who have signed onto this campaign ashamed of Kerry's wartime behavior rather than proud of it. The Kerry campaign's frantic cover-up attempts, over the past week especially, are embarrassing and difficult to watch. Kerry's speech before the VFW was the worst squirmer I can remember--and Kerry knew it; he rushed his applause lines so blatantly that even without seeing the audience, TV viewers knew he was desperately trying to hide the silence that he knew would ensue. This man may end up president (the several-year promotion of our enemies' interests in order to diss GWB has worked well with the coalition of dependents, grievance-groups, socialists, and plain old clueless ingrates that inhabit the protection of this nation's vast freedoms), but if so it won't be for any reason other than that one of our political parties has become surpassingly proficent in packaging mass-market dishonesty.
"The vet I listen to is Rassman, the man Kerry saved. The Swiftboat Vet author is a documented liar, and that ad is a lie (they didn't serve with Kerry)."
Rassman didn't "serve" with Kerry either, pal!! He was blown into the water by an explosion. Kerry left the scene, came back to where the other boats were trying to help the disabled boat, and picked up Rassman, who was thrown out of a boat by the explosion. Listen to what the guys who were there that day are saying, stop trying to re-write their history in your own words!!!!Well, gotyrback, here's how I see Kerry and his choice to campaign on Vietnam.
My favorite uncle was with the 275th infantry regiment, 70th division (Trail Blazers) in WWII. Like Kerry, he came home with a Silver Star, a Bronze Star and several Purple Hearts.
He won them by being in the thin infantry line at Bastogne, with no artillery backup, absorbing the brunt of the German Nordwind attack. In very rough terrain, badly undermanned, he and his comrades held off the Germans in sub-zero weather with no food or warmth for days.
His hands and feet froze to the point of permanent nerve damage.
He single-handedly took out multiple German pillboxes.
Nearly half the regiment was lost in a few days'
fighting.
He thawed out and did it again.
He nearly died from his wounds the 2nd time around. In fact, his commander later told my aunt that he had started drafting the papers for a Medal of Honor because he was sure my uncle wouldn't pull through the 2nd time.
When it was all over, he came home, raised a family and worked at an ordinary job.
Kerry makes me want to spit in disgust. I know a REAL war hero.
And I haven't mentioned my uncle's 6 other brothers and his brother in law who also served in WWII combat. My father, who had a plane and a ship blown out from underneath him. My uncle who was in the first wave of paratroopers at Normandy AND at Bastogne. The uncle shot down on a bombing run, who eventually made his way to England with the help of the Free French.
I've been around life long enough to be able to judge character. I work with military every day and know their strengths -- and their weaknesses.
It's pretty clear to me who is telling the truth and who is posturing and cynically using our troops for personal ambition.
Add to Kerry's hiding behind a sypathetic press corp, he is using lawyers to try and suppress the free speech of those who make it possible for everyone. Shameful. Remember Mark Herron who tried to disqualify nearly 2000 absentee ballots of military personnl in Florida of the 2000 prez election.The Democratic Party. They hide behind scumbag journalists and lawyers.
Just to fill out the story, gotyrback, close relatives of mine also saw combat in Korea, Vietnam and Gulf I. I know a fair number of Gulf 1 vets, including Armor, Infantry and some special ops guys.
Like I said, it's not hard to tell the real guys from the poseurs when you look carefully. Kerry ain't the real stuff.
But what more than pisses me off is the way he is trying to lever himself into the White House, not only by claiming to be a real hero, but also by dirty strongarm tactics against some who are.
Why is it that the Democrats response to anything they do not like is to sue, oh yeah, they are lawyers. File with the FEC, sue the swiftvets and remember try to block the military votes like they did in FL in 2000, now try to block sale of the swiftvet book, Unfit for Command. Are the Johns scared? Bless the vets Sept 12. God bless our military who we could not survive without.
For the number of "threats to sue", libel and slander threats, and "win by intimidation" attitude that John Effin' Kerry has brought to this campaign so far, I think he has a real winner there, with his "boy" John Edwards......they can't refute any of the charges that have been brought into daylight about Kerry, so it's all about "suppression" (the book) and intimidation (the threats to television stations NOT to run the Swift Boat Vets for Truth ads). Some "leadership material" being shown here!!!!!!
The Donks are in complete disarray. Running around in circles, screaming and flapping their hands like a bunch of little girls. It's great.
Hanoi John and his band of suck-ups are an embarrassment to this country and the brave men who fought, and those who died, for this nation in countless battles and wars.
His "SEARING" false testamony about the Viet Nam warfighters was treason. He should be tried and convicted for the self-admitted atrocities he committed, and then again for treason: giving aid and comfort to the enemy during a time of war. (Just refer to the exhibit in Hanoi, showing Kerry as a war hero to the OTHER SIDE!)
He is not only not fit to serve as Commmander in Chief, he is not fit to be walking among free men, or holding ANY elective office anywhere in this great nation. He should be behind bars for the remainder of his pathetic self-serving life.
He should withdraw from the Presidential race, and give way to someone who is truly qualified. But everyone knows that the burning personal ambition of this sociopath will never allow him to do anything other than further his own needs.
Beyond the damage he did with that testamony to Congress, Kerry spent years in Congress promoting normalization with Viet Nam. How? By discrediting any reports of live US soldiers, and if he couldn't discredit it, he ignored it. Later, he shredded all the evidence.
With Kerry, "No men left behind" was "No evidence of men left behind".
They are still there: either as bones or prisoners.
What will we do to get them back? Elect the man who left them there to rot, as he stepped on their lives to further his political ambitions?
Not just "NO" ... "HELL NO!!!"
I served 3 years with the RVN "junk force" and RAGs. Anyone who served is entitled to an opinion, but I cannot abide Kerry's "padding his resume" and turning on those he now refers to as his "band of brothers". If you feel the need to embellish an otherwise undistinguished war experience while hoisting a few with friends, that is one thing and we all know those who have done it. But to run for the highest office in our country using a fabricated war record indicates a lack of character which would seem to exclude one from the office sought. As to his awards, while most awards given in Nam were much deserved I also saw at first hand some junior officer participate in the "medal of the month club" to further their own careers and not all of those were even vaguely deserved. Having read extensivly on the whole affair, I can only conclude that the swift boat vets who are contesting Kerry's character and accounts of his (very limited) Viet Nam service are far more credible that the senator.
At http://www.politicsus.com/011704fjk.htm is a press release from the Kerry campaign last January.
It tells the story of how Kerry saved Rassmann -- or a story, anyway. The press release rather differs from later accounts, and all the differences make Kerry look better.
But it does have a direct quote from Kerry:
‘I remember the day and the moment we [Rassman and Kerry] last met; the lingering bond between us comes from the shared experience of our service,’ Kerry said. ‘I told Jim what I tell the thousands of veterans I have met in Iowa: As president, I will never,ever,forget your service.’ Kerry added.
Right. Forgetting their service is something he's already done. Now, let's see if we can get him to remember his testimony, and explain it.