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« MilBlogs | Main | Rockin' Berlin to Baghdad (and Points Between and Beyond) »

June 9, 2004

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Chinese Prison Fun

By Greyhawk

A look at the life of American POW's held by China during the Korean War:

The exposure of Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal is a resounding slap on the face of the United States who constantly labels itself "a guard of human rights". A sharp contrast to the brutalities of US forces is the very humane treatment of US prisoners by Chinese army at the field of the Korean War half a century ago.

A recollection by Ms. Zhou Yuanmin, once an interpreter among China's POW administration staff and now a veteran editor of People's Daily, brings us back to the once gun smoke-filled battlefield, and enlightens us as to which country, after all, is the one respecting human rights and democracy.

<...>

During his more than one year work there, Ms. Zhou was deeply impressed by the Volunteer Army's treatment of prisoners. "The Chinese army had always exercised 'revolutionary humanitarianism' towards war captives. Beat and curse were not allowed, nor a kick, because this were iron disciplines of an army. Chinese soldiers were forbidden from searching pockets of Americans, letting them keeping their cigarettes and other private items. As for valuables such as gold match, they were registered and kept by the administration authority, and returned to them upon repatriation", Ms. Zhou recalled.

The winter in Korea was bitterly cold. The Volunteer Army distributed clothes, caps, gloves and quilts, all cotton-padded, to prisoners. Their heatable brick beds were always kept warm. Every day they found rice, flour, potato, soybean and meat on their table, for they enjoyed a diet standard same as a Chinese regiment-level cadre. Since westerners were fond of sugar, the POW authority supplied them by month a certain amount of refined white sugar. These food were all extravagant stuff the Chinese army managed to buy from China, but what we were indignant at was the fact that our soldiers were killed by American bombs when transporting them. Later, the POW administration specially bought bread-baking machine to enable prisoners to make fresh bread by themselves, which they liked.

"You know, at that time there were only soybean, sorghum and potato for our soldiers to eat. Sometimes we were short of food, but our soldiers would rather leave food to prisoners, despite that they themselves would starve. Of course, at a time of deficient material supplies, some soldiers had complaints when they saw prisoners were eating even better than themselves, but soon they understood after our leaders discussed the matter with them".

The health of American prisoners was once a visible problem in the camp. Many of them fell ill after a long-term battlefield life and under psychological pressure caused by homesick. The situation was reported to higher and higher authorities and finally reached Premier Zhou Enlai. Personally, Premier Zhou gave the instruction of "enhancing prisoners' nutrition and adopting emergency measures". As a result, a large batch of highly skilled doctors rushed to the camp from across China and set up there a special general hospital for prisoners. The action resulted in the saving of many lives. Once our army captured an American pilot, who was found seriously injured and in urgent need of blood transfusion. We rushed him to the hospital, we transferred blood plasma from home. Some Chinese doctors gave their own blood and finally we saved this American pilot.

Our POW administration respected religious customs of different countries and ethnic groups, and allowed prisoners to celebrate Christmas, Thanks Giving Day and Islamic festivals. Especially during Christmas and the Spring Festival, the camp was filled with a festival atmosphere in which prisoners stage self-made performances. In his family letter, American soldier Green wrote "this Christmas, the whole camp was vibrating with songs from the choir from midnight to 2 am. We talked and laughed. The Chinese army surprised us by gifts, sugar, cake, apple, almond and wine".

Ms. Zhou particularly mentioned the "prisoners' Olympics" staged in November, 1952, which were participated by 500 people. Wearing sports suits from China, prisoners competed in track and filed, boxing and basketball. Some black Americans talented in sports staged a really fantastic show.

Our Volunteer cadres never beat or abused prisoners who made mistakes, but talked with them. If they really made serious mistakes, they would be placed in confinement, at most for one week. Our political commissars personally talked with some officer prisoners who were from the West Point, telling them not to set themselves against China because the Chinese and American peoples were friends.

In the camp, American prisoners were not afraid of Chinese soldiers and cadres, but were afraid of their fellow men-American pilots. The large "POW" characters crossing the camp ground, which were visible from the air, didn't prevent American pilots from dropping their bombs who just wanted to fitful their tasks. Some Volunteer soldiers were thus killed trying to protect prisoners by dragging them into shelter.

At least that's what the People's Daily Online would have us believe.

This moment of bizarro-world reality was brought to you via e-mail from a Mudville reader in China, who writes:

Would you care to put this article up for comment? It is from the Peoples Daily in China. A propaganda piece which I think is full of lies. I would like some ammunition to strike back with. A couple of years back I was told by a Chinese lawyer that the US had started the fighting against the Chinese in the Korean War. I set her straight fast.

I lived in Korea for a couple of years. The propaganda flowing from the North was incredible, the very definition of unbelievable. Unfortunately, I think one must go well beyond the mere willing suspension of disbelief to really accept any description like the one above as fact, Orwellian is the best description I could offer of such believers. And no 'ammunition' can penetrate the kinds of barriers to truth these folks have constructed around themselves.

But then, once upon a time no one thought the Heidelberg Castle could be breached either. And look what the French did to it.

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Anybody have any ammo?


Posted by Greyhawk / June 9, 2004 8:59 PM | Permalink

1 TrackBack

Not only are Chinese Prisons like paradise, but they offer more religious freedom than the US, too... Read More

7 Comments

For starters, a world - recognized expert on brainwashing tesified before Congress.

James Brooke believes some Korean POW's ended up in Soviet jails

Check out the POW march routes

From http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/pmkor/
POW Camps in North Korea:
Over 2,000 men died, and are still unrecovered, as prisoners of war. Some deaths occurred at holding points and others in the permanent camps operated by Chinese forces on the south bank of the Yalu River. Some U.S. POWs spent time across the river in Manchuria, but to the best of our knowledge, all have returned.
(Click here to see the "POW Camps in North Korea" map)

Google terms like { "Korean War" +Prisoners } ; +Chinese "Prisoner of War treatment"

You get the idea

Have been to the Heidelberg Castle, and LOVED the giant wine and beer kegs! Also the ruins. More than that, I loved the Cathedral I saw in Strasbourg, France which was much better than seeing Heidelberg Castle. Strasbourg was the ultimate of French surrender! If you want more of German destruction, go to Berlin and see the Church of Wilhelm. or the former walls of Rothenburg o.b. Tauber! Both of these were great pics for history enthusiasts...

Mr Disalle may have covered it adequately already. However, one might start with US Army official history of the Korean war. I suspect that it is available on line, as somewhere in my bookmarks I've got a link to a chapter covering the tumultous events surrounding the US holding of North Korean (also Chinese? can't remember) prisoners during the Korean war, on one of the islands off the coast of South Korea.

I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone yet bring this up in news analysis, to compare and contrast with the current situation regarding our prisoners in Iraq. I think the Korean War Communist prisoner issue is almost completely forgotten now, but it had huge political significance at the time; I think it was the main thing that held up the armistice negotiations at Panmunjon for many, many months in 1952-3.

Ok--here's the link, which should get you to the US Army CMH (Center for Military History). Then you can see what they have (if anything) on US POWS held by China.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/korea/truce/ch11.html

Another link to general topic of Korean war (again, unchecked by me for US POW info):

http://www.sparknotes.com/history/american/
koreanwar/

I found two more useful sites: see here, and here
There is no doubt in my mind that the Korean POW's were treated horribly.
See Broken Soldiers by Raymond B. Lech
There had been, at one time, a kerfluffle over the effects of brainwashing on POW's in Korea. Books were written suggesting that soldiers were not sufficiently trained in how to behave in captivity, hence, unable to "resist" brainwashing. The Army responded with "POW Training" (a whole day!), and devised the Armed Forces Code of Conduct (we were tested on it -- you had to pass the test to "graduate")

US Military training lacked because, unlike the Nazis or even the Japanese, the Chicom-influenced NK and the Chicoms themselves practiced
"brainwashing" to a high degree, as a matter of course, unlike the Nazis and Japanese whom were mostly selective! Unlike the contemporay, anti-Guantanamo or anti-Bush activists, the Chicoms did not consider the humiliation of prisoners for the purpose of gathering intel, let alone efforts at brainwashing or mind control for intel or propaganda, as a PER SE VIOLATION OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION(S)! The Chinese Communists as led by Mao were allies of America in the CBI THeater during WW2, whose sterotype as being composed of poor and lightly armed fighters undoubtedly induced mistaken or fallacious perceptions amongst the pre-Korea 1 Civilian, military, and intel bureacracies.

I recently read (on a milblog?) of an incident in Korea where Chinese troops killed a large number of captured Marines by pushing them off a cliff. Sorry I do not have a link.

The idea of a civilized, humane Communist would be laughable if the reality were not so grim.

Thanks for the comments gentlemen. I will place the facts were they might do some good.

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November 26, 2010


America@war
[Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit.

That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary.

From their about page:

The Naval Institute shall remain

INDEPENDENT - A non-profit member association, with no government support, that does not lobby for special interests;

NON-PARTISAN - An independent, professional military association with a mission, goals and objectives that transcend political affiliations; and shall encourage

IDEAS - Through its respected journals Proceedings and Naval History, its conferences, its books and its online content, in support of those who serve.

"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation:

The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism.

Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented.

I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are.

"Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result.

Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web...

And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed.

The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down.

*****

But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:

Closing Blogs is nothing new. So many site's owners just give up on their own. They come and go, you know, these MilBloggers do. Like any other sort of blogger. Many post in the lonely down hours far from home, spill their guts for the world, then abandon their spots when the tour of duty is up. They have lives again somewhere in the world, and no need to share the details. So it goes.

Many are truly gone - no site left at all. "The page cannot be found." Other blogs remain, like abandoned defensive positions in shifting desert sands.

Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down.

If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real.

And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale.

We've already made history, it's time to save it.

(More to follow...)




Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) |

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The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
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  • pete: Thanks for the comments gentlemen. I will place the facts read more
  • Paul Stinchfield: I recently read (on a milblog?) of an incident in read more
  • JosephMendiola: US Military training lacked because, unlike the Nazis or even read more
  • Frank DiSalle: I found two more useful sites: see here, and here read more
  • Paul H.: Mr Disalle may have covered it adequately already. However, one read more
  • stuttgartcad: Have been to the Heidelberg Castle, and LOVED the giant read more
  • Frank DiSalle: For starters, a world - recognized expert on brainwashing tesified read more

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The Mudville Gazette is written and produced by Greyhawk, who recently retired from 24 years of active duty in the US military, but will maintain this disclaimer: Unless otherwise credited, the opinions expressed are those of the author, and nothing here is to be taken as representing the official position of or endorsement by the United States Department of Defense or any of its subordinate components.

Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house.

I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email.

Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed.

Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com

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Tending Distant
Fires


Far from hearth and home, watching
Cold alone but not alone
On distant shore and only wanting
Safe return and little more

What tales we'll tell
When that time comes
When tales can be told

When things grim
Seem far away
When other fires go cold

Some distant sunset, vision fading
Memories remain
And tired eyes gaze 'pon folded flags
While distant drums beat their refrain

Saluting fallen friends whose names
And youth will never fade
Here's to those on other shores,
for them live well, the price is paid

- Greyhawk,
Baghdad,
December 2004