 |  |
 
October 2012
August 2012 July 2012 May 2012 April 2012 March 2012 December 2011 November 2011 October 2011 September 2011 August 2011 July 2011 June 2011 May 2011 April 2011 March 2011 February 2011 January 2011 December 2010 November 2010 October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 December 2008 November 2008 October 2008 September 2008 August 2008 July 2008 June 2008 May 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 March 2005 February 2005 January 2005 December 2004 November 2004 October 2004 September 2004 August 2004 July 2004 June 2004 May 2004 April 2004 March 2004 February 2004 January 2004 December 2003 November 2003 October 2003 September 2003 August 2003 July 2003 June 2003 May 2003 April 2003 March 2003 February 2003 January 2003
     |
 Greetings! You are reading an article from The Mudville Gazette. To reach the front page, with all the latest news and views, click the logo above or "main" below. Thanks for stopping by! May 6, 2004 Floggings Will Continue Until Morale ImprovesBy GreyhawkNote: this story originally posted Nov 2003. A Jan 04 update can be found here. Readers are highly encourged to see this timeline of events regarding Iraq prison cases. Sgt Edmondson has come home. Edmondson and three other members of a Pennsylvania Guard unit were accused of abusing prisoners in their custody while stationed at a POW camp in Iraq. Edmonson elected to accept a reduction in rank to Pvt and an other-then-honorable discharge in lieu of court martial. (The other three elected to face court martial.) All are under a gag order, but one, Staff Sgt. Scott McKenzie, had given an account of the event in an e-mail he sent home: As MPs were unloading 44 enemy prisoners of war from a bus, McKenzie said, "10 to 12 resisted as we escorted them." McKenzie's account above can be found in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. According to the AP, Miss Edmondson, a former student and security guard at the University of Scranton, would not discuss the charges in detail yesterday, saying she probably would be called back to Iraq to testify. But, speaking by telephone from her parents' home in Clarks Summit, about 110 miles north of Philadelphia, she said conditions in the camp were frightening and unsafe. Sometimes as few as 100 MPs were guarding 8,000 prisoners, she said. "We were doing our jobs, and that's about all I can say. People don't understand the conditions out there. It is war. It is not back home where everybody is safe," Miss Edmondson said. "Mistakes will be made. People are dying. Our soldiers are dying every day. But they seem to want to be nicer to the Iraqi POWs than our own people." Miss Edmondson said she will try to get her old job back at the university. Her discharge, which came after a demotion from sergeant to private, probably will bar her from pursuing her plan to become a police officer. A grass roots support campaign is underway in their home state of Pennsylvania, and opinions like this one are popping up on the internet and in print media: A story that you will not read in any of America?s elite media is rapidly unfolding in Kuwait. Four American soldiers, accused by Amnesty International, have been charged by the U.S. military with abusing Iraqi PoW?s on May 12, 2003. Amnesty International misses the warm and fuzzy compassion of the former Hussein regime. But support for the four is not limited to right wing conservative types, outraged at the "wrongness" of the entire story. The case is also (perhaps ironically) attracting support from the Left, who can gleefully (and wrongfully) use it to bash the administration. (Admittedly though the support for these Military Police from that sector is currently hesitant and without a certain level of enthusiastic commitment reserved for Mumia-style cop killers.) A look at local coverage from Pennsylvania: Former soldier disillusioned Support of superiors lacking, ex-MP says By LAUREN ROTH Wilkes-Barre (Pa.) Times Leader Perhaps lacking some of the drama of the Lt Col West case, (see here and here)this case has progressed farther (Lt Col West's article 32 hearing is concluded but awaiting decision) with much less notice of most of the public. While Col West's story is "front page news" in the blogosphere, the "Camp Bucca Four" are MIA. An early AP report can be found here. And coverage of the article 32 hearing by AP's Tarek Al-Issawi is here. ABC news offers coverage of the pre-court martial arraignment here and here, and assures us that "...The court martial will be held at both Camp Doha and at Camp Bucca to allow Iraqi prisoners of war to testify." Update 5 Jan 2004: -- Three American soldiers have been discharged from military service for abusing Iraqi prisoners, the U.S. Army said Monday. Original post: 2003-11-29 16:17:41 Note that comments on this and all posts are open and unmoderated, although obscene remarks will be deleted when discovered. No claim is made regarding truth or accuracy of comments, to include identity of the commenter. In all matters the reader is advised to draw his or her own conclusions. Posted by Greyhawk / May 6, 2004 4:20 AM | Permalink 31 Comments |
November 26, 2010America@war [Greyhawk]
I think anyone who's ever pondered the "comment" option - once only available on blogs and bulletin boards, now ubiquitous on almost any web site - will appreciate this:
The so-called faculty of writing is not so much a faculty of writing as it is a faculty of thinking. When a man says, "I have an idea but I can't express it"; that man hasn't an idea but merely a vague feeling. If a man has a feeling of that kind, and will sit down for a half an hour and persistently try to put into writing what he feels, the probabilities are at least 90 percent that he will either be able to record it, or else realize that he has no idea at all. In either case, he will do himself a benefit. That's wisdom from the past, captured for posterity at the US Naval Institute, shared via the web on the institute's 137th anniversary. From their about page:
"The Naval Institute has three core activities," among them, History and Preservation: The Naval Institute also has recently introduced Americans at War, a living history of Americans at war in their own words and from their own experiences. These 90-second vignettes convey powerful stories of inspiration, pride, and patriotism. Take a look at the collection, and you'll see it's not limited to accounts from those who served on ships at sea, members of the other branches are well-represented. I'm fortunate to have met USNI's Mary Ripley, she's responsible for the institute's oral history program (and she's the daughter of the late John Ripley, whose story is told here). She also deserves much credit for their blog. ("We're not the Navy nor any government agency. Blog and comment freely.") We met at a milblog conference - Mary knew (and I would come to realize) that milbloggers are the 21st-century version of exactly what the US Naval Institute is all about. Once that light bulb came on in my head, I mentioned a vague idea for a project to her - milblogs as the 21st century oral history that they are. "Put that in writing," she said (of course - see first paragraph above!) - and here's part of the result. Shortly after the first tent was pitched by the American military in Iraq a wire was connected to a computer therein, and the internet was available to a generation of Americans at war - many of whom had grown up online. From that point on, at any given moment, somewhere in Iraq a Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine was at a keyboard sharing the events of his or her day with the folks back home. While most would simply fire off an email, others took advantage of the (then) relatively new online blogging platforms to post their thoughts and experiences for the entire world to see. The milblog was born - and from that moment to this stories detailing everything from the most mundane aspects of camp life to intense combat action (often described within hours of the event) have been available on the web... And et cetera - but since you're reading this on a milblog, you probably knew that. And you know that milblogs aren't just blogs written by troops at war, that many friends, family members, and supporters likewise documented their story of America at war online in near-real time, as those stories developed. The diversity in membership of that group is broad, the one thing we all have in common is the impulse to make sense of the seemingly senseless, and communicate the tale - for each of us that impulse was strong enough to overcome whatever barriers prevent the vast majority of people from doing the same. Everyone at some point has some vague idea they believe should be shared - we were the people who, from some combination of internal and external urging, found and spent those many half hours persistently trying to write it down. But where will all that be in another 137 years? Or five or ten, for that matter. That's something I've asked myself since at least 2004 - when I wrote this:
Membership in the ghost battalion has grown in the years since, and an ever growing majority of those abandoned-but-still-standing sites are vanishing. Have you checked out Lt Smash's site lately? How about Sgt Hook's? If you're a long-time milblog reader you know the first widely-read milblog from Operation Iraq Freedom and the first widely-read milblog from Afghanistan are both gone from the web. If you're a relative newcomer to this world you may never even have heard of them - or the dozens upon dozens of others who carried forth the standard they set down. If you have a vague notion that something should be done about that, (a notion I've heard expressed more than once...) then you and I and the good folks at the US Naval Institute are in agreement. Preserving the history documented by the milbloggers is just one of the goals of the milblog project, the once-vague idea that we're now making real. And it's a big idea, if I say so myself - too big to explain in one simple blog post, so stand by for more. Likewise, it's too big a task to be accomplished by just one person. So if you're a milblogger (and exactly what is a milblogger? is a topic for much further discussion on its own) I'm asking for your help. All I'll really need is just a little bit (maybe just one or two of those half hours...) of your time, and your willingness to tell the tale. We've already made history, it's time to save it. (More to follow...) Posted 4:02 PM | Permalink |
Comments (0) |
|
The Mudville Gazette is the on-line voice of an American warrior and his wife who stands by him. They prefer to see peaceful change render force of arms unnecessary. Until that day they stand fast with those who struggle for freedom, strike for reason, and pray for a better tomorrow.
 
 
 Furthermore, I will occasionally use satire or parody herein. The bottom line: it's my house. I like having visitors to my house. I hope you are entertained. I fight for your right to free speech, and am thrilled when you exercise said rights here. Comments and e-mails are welcome, but all such communication is to be assumed to be 1)the original work of any who initiate said communication and 2)the property of the Mudville Gazette, with free use granted thereto for publication in electronic or written form. If you do NOT wish to have your message posted, write "CONFIDENTIAL" in the subject line of your email. Original content copyright © 2003 - 2011 by Greyhawk. Fair, not-for-profit use of said material by others is encouraged, as long as acknowledgement and credit is given, to include the url of the original source post. Other arrangements can be made as needed. Contact: greyhawk at mudvillegazette dot com  Tending Distant Far from hearth and home, watching What tales we'll tell When things grim Some distant sunset, vision fading Saluting fallen friends whose names - Greyhawk, Baghdad, December 2004 |
I will jump on the bandwagon on this too. Are there any petitions to be signed in their behalf?
Since when does the Army allow its authority over the POWs to be challenged? Especially by the Army itself?
I smell a rat.
I'm not aware of any petitions. Perhaps Amnesty International will aid them after they're convicted.
it is time to call the local congress critter.
I've never met anyone who wanted to be a Soldier more than Scott McKenzie. I've never met anyone who had as much faith in the system as he. On the eve of a new year, Scott's on his way home. As communication has been limited the past two days, it is our assumption, the Army no longer calls him a Soldier. That they have taken 15 years of Honorable and Meritorious service and said--over an alleged incident, it doesn't matter. The Army wonders why Soldiers are leaving without a look back.
The author seems to have left out the fact that these four soldiers were SEEN "punching, kicking and breaking bones of prisoners at Camp Bucca," and turned in by their comrades. It was the comrades' testimony that apparently convinced the four to cop a plea. There's no excuse for US soldiers to abuse prisoners of war. These four according to CNN, kicked prisoners in the groin, even holding open their legs to inflict maximum pain. That's called torture. For shame! Your outrage would be better directed at real injustices.
I think someone with the charachter of Master Sgt. Lisa Girman as she has showed herself should be placed in a turkish prison for men. They would love to tame such a one.
All I can say is that NCO'S are supposed to set the example. Poor judgement and mistakes are made from time to time. We are only human! Being a active duty military retiree I have been in many situations both in peace time and yes in conflicts. That require you to keep your head thinking straight. As two members where Senior NCO'S they are constantly being scrutinized by their sub-ordinates. This behavior does not bring credit to themselves, their country or military service. They will have to pay for their actions and lack of judgement. However one item has me a little concerned. MSGT Lisa Girman is a state trooper is apalling. What is to stop her from pulling someone over and getting out of line with a U.S. Citizen. If she is allowed to continue to be a state trooper she needs a full psychiatric evaluation before resuming her duties. Possibly, her past arrests could be tainted or questioned. I personnally would not get warm fuzzy feelings if she pulled me over.
to the above comment from Mr. Kurycz Jr., sir, being in conflicts yourself and ex-military, a question. Have you ever had to take a life, or have you ever fired your weapon in the direction of your enemy. Have you ever been fired at. Last question, were you there present when these "crimes" were committed? If you were not, how can you pass judgement? If they are guilty,I can not see the amry dismissing any of the charges. Although, the army dropped all the charges. I have been in the military and have been in law enforcement for 11 years. If you are guilty you are convicted. They have not. Before passing judgement we should have, all the facts. Do not judge someone until you have walked a day in there "combat, while at war boots".
Bo.
In response to Bo. Yes I have been in combat and have taken lives. If only you knew. I can not go into detail. In response to your crimes question. You are right I was not there and it sounds like you were not either. Even if you where their the Army had enough grounds to proceed with NJP proceedings and possible court martial. The accused elected to take NJP and not go thru with a court martial. I am not judging them the Army did. All I said is that the two Senior NCO's definitely new better. Poor judgement and actions took place and now the penalty has to be paid. A military convening authority has administered the legal action correctly affored it by the MCM. The Geneva Convention Accords was signed by the United States and it offers certain protection given prisoners and certain standards that a conquering force must adhere to. Somehow this was not adhered to. Just like we the citizen's of the United States are protected by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. There are certain procedures a law enforcement offical must follow. If procedures are not followed correctly it jepardizes the case and the accused regardless of how severe the crime was can walk away free. Bo something happened over there in the way the prisoners were treated. Other Army personnell eye witnessed these actions. Are they lying or is the Army making these accused scape goats.
I'm still not sure how I feel about this case. I wonder if these troops agreed to a gag order or will be speaking out about conditions on the ground.
Meanwhile, here's a link to a similar story that's just now getting into the news:
http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news1/fisk10.html
The 4 MPs were railroaded by a rear echelon pogue-
colonel, who no doubt is a suck-up and brown noser of the worst sort. Said dipsh1t colonel wanted to make an impression on his superiors since he cannot satisfy his wife in bed, he has to make a swagger stick show of force by abusing those troops placed under his dubious command.
I hope the four MP's get their justice, and that the useless colonel gets his comeuppance in the not too distant future.
I applaud the actions of the 4, as they and the others controlling that mob were at an 80 to ONE
disadvantage. I am sure that MSgt Girman acted with the utmost of professionalism when she assessed the situation, and took measure appropriate to the situation. To bad the colonel set above her (who is probably a McDonalds manager
in real life) had gotten too many tickets in his lifetime, and thought the best way to take it out on someone was to bust a real group of patriotic
Americans.
I served for several years in the 320th MP unit with Lisa Girman. Pete, your over the top comment is WAY out line. Lisa Girman is a top notch soldier and leader. I'd follow her into any war, anytime.
Also - The statements made by the persons from another (non-MP) unit that started this were "they handled the EPW's roughly". The rest was added on by a ticked off officer because Girman filed a complaint of public intoxication of this officer. Also, she brought attention to the fact that an officer (I'm not sure if it's the same one) "misplaced" their weapon!
Here's some interesting factoids I've found:
(Girman) faulted superiors for suggesting they could provide more food and speedier hearings to prisoners, raising false hopes among the Iraqis that prompted two riots the week before Easter.
(Girman) confronted superiors about their decision to hire as an assistant a prisoner nicknamed "Sammy the Kickboxer."...so named because he repeatedly had lashed out at MPs.
During one riot...a commanding officer retreated, stranding soldiers in the prisoners' living area....(Girman) led a rescue, raising her standing among troops who had begun to lose faith in the camp's leadership.
Linda Edmondson of South Abington, Lackawanna County, said her daughter, Shawna, 24, in civilian life a public safety officer at the University of Scranton, also had hinted at leadership problems. She said her daughter mentioned a "Palm Sunday Riot" in which a major "ran and hid behind a water tank and left the kids there."
Thomas confirmed that one prisoner was fatally shot and another wounded during an uprising and that one MP was threatened with a tent pin, but said he didn't have other details.
Edmondson and Jim Canjar of Madison, Lackawanna County, praised Lisa Girman. "All the soldiers love her," said Canjar, noting his son, a 21-year-old criminal justice student at Penn State, had mentioned a major's grudge against Girman.
In e-mails to his mother and other family members and friends, McKenzie complained about a colonel who lost his gun, a major intoxicated in front of her troops and a major's inadvertent release of a prisoner on the most-wanted list.
David Girman said the charges against his sister and others have dealt another blow to morale, leaving MPs afraid to defend themselves or confront prisoners. He said MPs did not attempt to stop four prisoners who escaped from the compound one day.
Thomas confirmed a prisoner was released by mistake.
Sound fishy enough to not bad mouth these soldiers?
It's interesting that most of you are making negative comments based on knowing half the story. I assure you, that if you knew the full story, you would find it more difficult to judge these individuals. If you have military experience, than you should know that the military has a way of hiding the things it doesn't want known. Ask yourself these 2 questions that might enlighten you a bit: 1) Are there any POW's that were offered U.S. citizenship by a certain individual who initiated this investigation? and 2) Why would the soldiers "give up" on trying to fight these charges after fighting them for so long...Were deals made to have a soldier turn on the others in order to avoid other charges based on his/her infidelity outside of his/her marriage?
Interesting to see the majority of posters here defending the soldiers actions. There were more than one witness' to the soldiers actions, so its reasonably safe to assume that this isn't just a case of false allegations by some pissed off major. And holding someone down, holding their legs open for others to kick is torture, not self defense. You may remember torture - its what saddam and his thugs did to the iraqi people, oh, and wasn't that why we had to go in there and get him in the first place? Which is why its so goddamned important that when _we_ start doing it, the perpetrators are punished and justice is seen to be done. These three should have been subjected to criminal proceedings.
There's a post further up here that says 'they deserved it because they were guilty'. Rubbish. Iraqis are being detained all the time under suspicion, and later freed because they are innocent. Incidentally, in the case of the British troops that beat 9 iraqis, one of them to death, they were later all shown to be totally innocent. Not much good for the dead one eh?
I haven't been following this story. My initial reaction is to support the MPs, not because I was there but simply that I have first-hand experience with false accusations of brutality toward arestees, being a retired LEO.I would be especially suspicious of such charges coming after those enlisted troops charging O-4 and O5 grade officers of any kind of misconduct, much as I'd be suspicious of charges brought against a patrol officer just after that patrol officer arrested a Mayor's brother-in-law for DWI.
I won't say MP or LEO misconduct ever happens, we all know it does. I say being suspicious of this case is the smart way to bet.
I would not read much into these folks taking the NJP and out, either. Just the very fact of having a charge against one, in this day of zero defect, is enough to end a career. They had nothing to gain by rolling the dice in a court martial and everything to lose. In a court martial they wouldn't have Commander Rabb from JAG on CBS defending them, they'd have a First John from Brigade Headquarters unless, out of their own pockets, they could pay civilian counsel. Being a defendent in a military proceeding is a damned chancy thing. The members of the court are career military. The defense counsel is only rarely a lawyer, mostly it's an officer assigned and subordinate to that convening authority. Just how much would I bet on that defense counsel's loyalties being my well being? How much would I bet on the objectivity of the members of the court that just might be subordinate to an officer with whom I'd crossed swords? How much am I willing to risk for what is, in reality, a part time job, interfering with my regular career?
Had the senior NCO not ruffled the feathers of a Major and a short Colonel prior to the charges they'd be a lot more believable. It's also damned hard for me to believe that a Master Sgt and career State Trooper would be dumb enough to abuse prisoners in front of witnesses. When this sort of thing happens it happens out of sight.
Will someone please call my wife and have her wake me up...I'm having a Monty Python nightmare about "mean ole" Sgt Lisa roughing up some Iraqi creampuffs.
I mean no disrespect to Sgt Girman, but given her grace in dealing with this situation, I strongly suspect that she has been far more brutal to (the egos of) young men back home seeking her affections than to the Iraqi men over whom she was given charge.
Is this how the land of my birth and my life thanks the people who stand the late watch and die in un-named places that we may sleep in peace? Truth really is the first casualty of every war, isn't it?
Lets just say that those 4 soliders didnt even come close to getting what they deserved. The reason they coped? because they were guilty! Ask your self this question? Why would this senior NCO walk away from a almost 20 year carrer if she knew in her heart she was just? Let her stand on her principals and be a example to her soliders and believe in the system she represents in her civilian and military life. This stand up State trooper that recieved a D.U.I the night before she left for Kuwait had been suspeted in other abuse incidents prior to this. Know the facts!!
Lisa Girman got a D.U.I. the night before her unit deployed? What a disgrace. What a disgrace.
D-U-I
D-U-I
Chant it with me, everyone...
I just wanted to say I don't see the real deal here. I mean the television shows different things as being comical, like the kicking in the groin. As a fact, there are some men that actually like it and goes to dominatrix to get stuff like that done. It's a shame that society can make comics out of it, but states it's a real serious issue, especially if there is one that might like it. No disrespect because I am not quoting anyone or even myself.
SO BIG DEAL SHE GOT A D.U.I. THAT IS BECAUSE WE GAVE HER A PARTY BEFORE SHE WENT TO FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM BECAUSE JUST MAYBE I WOULD NEVER SEE HER AGAIN! SO I GUESS YOU WERE JUST A PERFECT PERSON THAT YOU DID KNOW WRONG; YA RIGHT!SHE WOULD GIVE HER LAST BREATH TO SAVE SOMEONE SO DONT TALK ABOUT SOMEONE IF YOU REALLY DONT KNOW THEM.IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT MAKE OUR WORLD JUDGE PEOPLE ON HEAR SAY INSTEAD OF REALITY. SO WHY DONT YOU BE HAPPY THAT SHE FOUGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM. BESIDES WHY ARENT YOU THERE ! REMEMBER THEYARE KILLING ARE MEN AND WOMEN EVERYDAY!
So, these people can get angry and kick asses. WELLL, what if we make them Police Officers down in the inner city -- can they do the SAME? Get mad and kick asses.
I was in ROTC. You FOLLOW orders. Not your own emotions. All of these people are a DISGRACE to the military.
They are to win the "hearts and minds" of the Iraquis, not beat the hell out of them.
This rag of a paper should be ashamed as well!
The Military is about serving and following orders -- not about getting pissed and kicking a**! Shame on these losers!
Name: GIRMAN, DAVID J
Address: 12 xx removing street name for his privacy xx
PITTSTON, PA 18640
County: LUZERNE
Date of Birth: 6/8/1967
Gender: MALE
VOTER INFORMATION
Registration Number: 0000647800
Party Affiliation: DEMOCRATIC
Congressional District: 11
State Senate District: 14
State House District: 118
Precinct: PITTSTON CITY 01
VOTING HISTORY
GENERAL ELECTION 2000: VOTED
PRIMARY ELECTION 1999: VOTED
GENERAL ELECTION 1998: VOTED
GENERAL ELECTION 1997: VOTED
I have another point no one has brought up. A master sergeant is not "directly below" a colonel. A colonel is well above a master sergeant...are you kidding me?!? Between a sergeant and a colonel you have lieutenants, captains, and majors. Plus, colonels have to have a college degree and it's very hard to get promoted to colonel in the reserves. For someone who didn't go to college and drinks too much (I'm insulted because my best friend was seriously injured by a drunk driver in college) I think Lisa should shut up. She looks ignorant and the rest of America looks with horror at this ugly bitter woman making us GI's (I'm a 2LT in the USMC) look bad on TV. Horrible. Gross.
Please, please Lisa shut up.
I think one of the previous posters hit the nail on the head. Girman and Edmondson could start a whole new high paying career as dominatrixes. A lot of guys would pay top dollar to get the kind of "treatment" they dish out! They'd even pay extra if they wore their fatigues and combat boots.....
None of this blather is going to make those photographs or the testimony of witnesses go away. The soldiers who committed these atrocities are responsible for their own actions.
It may be that extenuating circumstances exist regarding these incidents and perhaps even the command and control issues surrounding them. Those circumstances may well reduce the degree of culpability attending the defendants.
That said, it will not suffice to prosecute only these MPs. Their chain of command bears a far greater degree of responsiblity for these outrages than do the individual soldiers.
That chain of command extends all the way to the White House. The Commander in Chief gave the order to invade Iraq in the first place.
He did so in the naive belief that the occupation would be a simple matter. Consequently, there was never any detailed exit strategy. Such strategy as did exist has been proven woefully inadequate.
That is the real reason these atrocities occurred. We entered this war based on faulty intelligence (some might say manufactured intelligence) regarding both the rationale for the war and the likely consequences for it.
George W. Bush is ultimately responsible for this mess. He must be held to account for it.
You're right Mr. Frank. We should stop holding people responsible for what they do at 2-4 am, with no one else around, when there are PICTURES and VIDEOS that prove no one else was around, while a small group decided to do disgusting things. George W. Bush is definitely responsible for MP's and MI's deciding to break rules. THrow him out! and best yet, replace him with the MP's in this pictures and videos! They seem like good people!!!
I was just reading the post from LELE and she made several intersting comments about and assumed alot. FIrst let me say that even though I am way behind the dates on this post I am doing it in a effort to set the record straight. Second it is all well and good that you threw Msgt Girman a party the night before she left my Family did aswell. Like a responsible solider I chose not to drive. Everyone has a choice and she made hers, this if anything speaks of her charcter.... This is a State trooper were talking about. Third let me say this I was there and I was in Iraq for the second time (desert storm and Iraqi freedom) along with several other deployments. How do I know? I was a solider stationed at Camp Bucca I have first hand knowledge. My up armor hummer had 23 miles on it when I got to iraq the day the war started and had 23,000 when I left. Please dont confuse good soliders with bad ones. I hope this puts this issue to bed. Just to recap the all plead guilty right? like the name says Been there
I was just reading the post from LELE and she made several intersting comments about and assumed alot. FIrst let me say that even though I am way behind the dates on this post I am doing it in a effort to set the record straight. Second it is all well and good that you threw Msgt Girman a party the night before she left my Family did aswell. Like a responsible solider I chose not to drive. Everyone has a choice and she made hers, this if anything speaks of her charcter.... This is a State trooper were talking about. Third let me say this I was there and I was in Iraq for the second time (desert storm and Iraqi freedom) along with several other deployments. How do I know? I was a solider stationed at Camp Bucca I have first hand knowledge. My up armor hummer had 23 miles on it when I got to iraq the day the war started and had 23,000 when I left. Please dont confuse good soliders with bad ones. I hope this puts this issue to bed. Just to recap the all plead guilty right? like the name says Been there
I was there in Bucca with those 4. They were a rare few whom I respect from within the 320th. They were a great group of troops that need to be thanked for thier efforts towards the mission in Iraq....
Your country is despicable.
The new Nazism.
A web of lies almost as thick ( thick means stupid btw!) as you thieving , plundering ,murdering war criminals.
Europe despises you.
Even large sections of America see the sham of a "democracy" that you are.
The lot of you should be dragged off to the Hague for war crimes.
Still , support that cancer Buxh , and ultimately you'll end up with exactly what you deserve- a leper state , isolated and despised by the whole world.
Oh and you might even get some terrorism -duhhh!
PS I live in England.Apparently we have a "special
relationship " with you.
Well , you wish!
PPS are you the clowns that think a passport of a hijacker can land uncharred in the rubble of the WTC and yet the black boxes "never got found"
Hmmm......
Hi, English Patriots!
Interesting that you use AOL in Virginia for your web service. Might I assume you're just "on holiday" in the US? Do enjoy!
Cheers!